Nic Cage: The Rock (1996)

Gather together from the cosmic reaches of the universe. Here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled.

Keith, if you've ever watched any of these movies. I've seen three of the four. I don't like these movies, so I do not need to see the fourth one.

Terry, he'll never admit to it. That's the problem. You could interrogate him for hours and he'll never say it.

Derek, what a great loophole. And the power twins, Zap and Jordan with their magical lemur snort, dedicated to fumbling their way through movies one forgotten gem at a time. This week we plot our escape from 1996's the Rock. This is fumbling through film.

Why didn't you just tell them where the microfilm was and create a solution?

The moment they had the microfilm, they'd suicide me.

Some solution ended up here. Which brings me to another question broke out. Let me see if I can get this straight. You went down the incinerator chute on the mine cart, through the tunnels to the power plant, under the steam engine that was really cool, by the way. And into the cistern through the intake pipe. But how in the name of Zeus's butthole did you get out of your cell? I only ask because in our current situation, well, it could prove to be useful information, Maybe.

Trade secrets. My son.

Hello, and welcome to another one of a kind, genre defining, brand new episode of Family Through Film. The only show that dares to bring together three dudes to talk about movies. These, however, aren't just any movies.

Not at all.

That was a very casual way of saying that, Terry. These are the ones we've missed, overlooked, or feel are simply worth revisiting. So I will casually say that they are any movie.

Seems like something's missing.

Yeah, see?

What? What did you say, Keith?

Seems like something's missing.

I thought you said mama save Mama sama Makusa or something like that. I was like, well, that's.

He's speaking in tongues.

If you play it backwards, you'll hear me say, I think something could be missing.

Something's missing. Something's missing. I agree.

What it is.

I don't.

I don't know if we'll ever figure

it out, but, you know, and secret sauce.

It's one of those, like, Universal debates. Mm.

Like.

Like what happens after you die? Is there. Is it any movie or not? It's true.

Is there life on other planets?

Are ghosts real?

Are ghosts real?

Roswell actually happen?

And is there such thing as any

movie, I guarantee that there's probably like a microfilm somewhere hidden in maybe like a church pew leg that may have the answers to. Is it any movie? We'll find out.

It's a. It's a microfilm and it's got the list of all the movies that don't count.

Like all 10.

Yeah, well, that'd be a blank microfilm because every movie is any movie. My name is Derek and I'm a Fumbler. Joining me here, the bubble dome is the prime minister of fumbling at film, Keith.

Hey.

Hey, what's up, KG Fumbler extraordinaire? And yeah, all around good guy, I think.

Yeah. Wow.

He declares himself an all around good guy. Well, the other. The other guy you're hearing is a self declared. Well, no, I gave him the name Dr. Dre of Kansas.

He's the bad boy of.

He's a self declared bad boy of film.

Yes.

He's a Dr. Dre of Kansas. He's Terry.

That's right. They. They released me from prison just to do this episode. I'm the only one with the specialty to do it, so, you know, happy to be here.

In the 60s, he was put away for criticizing movies.

Yeah. A little bit too much.

A little bit too much.

I'm the bad boy of the bad casting of podcasting.

Yes.

Self proclaimed. I've called it myself that many a times.

Many times. We never questioned it or brought it up until today.

I walk into a saloon and the record stops. The piano player stops playing.

That is like a. That to me. That's like a bucket list thing. Walking into an old timey saloon and the piano player stops and everybody just like stares at you and then resumes. As soon as they're like, okay, it's him. And they're just. That's what I want to have happen.

They all like decide, okay, he's not gonna flip out and murder us all. We're cool.

Yes. Yes. That's what I want to have happen one day.

You have that on one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is you want to have your own, like, music that plays when you walk into a room. Like theme. And stuff like that, like, kicks in. Like as soon as you walk into

a room, you walk in and the piano player starts playing like, oh, puppets by Metallica or something cool. Raining Blood.

That's Derek's music.

Yep.

And then I. When I come in and I smash somebody with a chair. Yeah. I leave with the briefcase of money. That's my plan.

That is a Dream.

You know what else is a dream?

This podcast.

This podcast.

I dream of it every day.

I do, too. And what we need to do is we need to tell people what it is we do here so they could dream about it as well. Every week, we watch movies, but not just any movies. Every month, one of us chooses a theme, a genre, a guiding light, some sort of impractical mechanism for holding the deadliest of all chemicals, little. Little glass balls. And so we use those little glass balls to inform us, and we choose movies that adhere to the little glass balls and also the theme. And then on the fourth week, we really fumble. We watch a movie that is given to us by the magic wheel of death. Anyway, this week. This month is DTF, down to fumble. Y2. Year 2. M6. Month. 6. And that's a Terry month. So, Terry, tell us what it is we're in for this month.

Well, folks, it's Cage month.

It's. It is movies with people in cages. All right.

Yes, it's Nick Cage month, to be more specific.

Oh, crap.

Yes, Nick.

I mean, each month, your pick does kind of fit that, Keith.

It does. It does. I wanted to cover off on both, just in case.

Just in case. But what'd you start us off with, Terry?

I picked another people in Cage movie. Con Air.

Con Air.

Classic Cage.

And I picked a movie where I would have rather been in a cage. Jiu Jitsu.

Not classic Cage.

More recent Cage.

More recent Cage. Yeah, this is like a contemporary Cage. Contempo Cage. And then Keith, it's W3. That means it's a Keith week. So, Keith, what did you pick for us?

I picked especially based off Terry's original pick. I picked another movie that came out within about 18 months of con Air called the Rock.

The Rock. Gentlemen, welcome to the Rock.

Mm.

Now, before we talk about our viewing of the Rock, before we do a deep dive into the Rock, did any of us have any previous history, knowledge, or experience with the Rock? Oh, from what year?

1996.

1996.

1996. Is the rock, not to be mistaken, with Dwayne Johnson.

Yeah, Very big missed opportunity. He's not in this.

You can still smell he's cooking, but, you know. Yeah, I mean, I saw this in theaters when it came out. I've seen a couple times since then, and it was in our categories of any movie. It was. Is very high on my list of things I wanted to rewatch.

Nice.

Had you not seen it prior to that? Prior to today as a rewatch?

I.

Not in a while. I mean, I've seen it since it's been in theaters, but like, it's been easily like, probably 10, 15 years since I'd seen it. All right. All right. Yeah. Good enough for it to be out of my memory.

Enough.

Fair enough.

Yep, I'd heard of it. I've never seen it before. My friends like this one quite a bit, but they've always talked about how it's one of Michael Bay's best films. But I've never seen it until today.

I had seen it once in theaters.

That's it.

That's it.

You didn't revisit?

Never revisited. Never even crossed my mind.

Seems like a theme with the Cage movies for you.

Well, specific ones at least. All right, well, I guess, Terry, it's up to you and I. We have got to, you know, relax like we're doing time. We got nowhere to go. Might as well just chill and listen as Keith takes us closer than we could ever dare dream. To the Rock in another patent pending fumblers deep dive.

Yeah, I'm.

I.

It's like I have like the special storage device I'm opening up. There's a bunch of little balls filled with information.

Balls of information.

Yeah.

Balls of info.

Yeah. The Rock. The smooth radar. 2 hours and 16 minutes. Easily 16 minutes could have been cut out, maybe more.

That's oddly specific.

16.

I mean, rounded out to the next two hours. I mean, I actually probably could have cut 30 out of this, but that's fine. But that's me being overly picky as I usually am. Now, we're going to go behind the scenes here as to when we actually record versus when this is released. Guys, can you look at your calendars? What's it say?

What?

What's the date today?

June 7th.

June 7th. Yes.

Yeah.

The rock was released on June 7th, 1996. Wow.

Oh my God.

This is amazing.

This is amazing.

Yes.

1996. So this is the 30th anniversary. We're recording this on the 30th anniversary.

We are.

That's amazing. Wow. Keith, did you plan this?

I did not.

Thirty years ago today, the Rock. We were probably at the Cinemark movies. 10.

I guarantee it.

Watching this movie.

Yeah.

It's like 9:30 at night. We would have been there. Oh my God.

Yeah, it's. We're both probably back from college for. Already for the summer and it's just. Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Wowee indeed.

Life is a funny way of repeating itself, doesn't it?

Thirty years since Derek saw this movie.

It. Yeah. To the day.

Yeah.

Happy 30th anniversary to you and the rock, Derek.

So when it popped up and, and when I started looking through the, you know, to do the deep dive, it popped up. I was like, oh, I'm gonna take a screenshot real quick and send this to the guys. I was like, no, wait, wait, wait. This is a good podcast.

Oh, yeah. Don't ruin your. Don't step on your own deep dive.

Yeah, I mean, that's the best thing in the deep dive. So kind of blew it all right there. I think this movie, it's got some taglines that are a little questionable. The first one, it's kind of close. The first one is Alcatraz. Only one man has ever broken out. Now 5 million lives depend on two men breaking in.

Okay, too long.

Well, first of all, there's like eight or nine guys breaking in the whole team. And I think even one time they even say it's 1 million lives versus, you know, 80, 81 lives or something like that. So they can't get their stories straight on, on this here. Another one is called Get Ready to Rock.

That's all right.

Or America is Rocking. No, no, I don't like that one. Probably my favorite of the group. Cocked, Locked and Ready to Rock.

Cocked, locked and Ready to Rock.

Yep.

They say that in the movie at one point.

Do they really?

One of the Marine says that to his commander, I think. Oh, okay.

This was a 75 million dollar budget, had a nice opening weekend of 25 million and it finished with 134 million in US and Canada and 335 million worldwide.

Mr. Worldwide.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They held the premiere for this movie actually in the prison wreck yard at Alcatraz.

Who was there to see it?

Whoever was brought in, like all the, all, like the main, like the normal way they would do like a, like a movie premiere.

Oh, okay.

Like all stars and stuff were all

there, but they had to boat them over.

Yeah, yeah.

Excessive. So luxurious and decadent of the celebrities that do such.

How much, how much fuel was wasted in this.

Taxpayer dollars were spent to send people.

I don't know about taxpayer dollars, but definitely Disney dollars. From what, what I read this is, this was not a, it's a Disney film. It's not an easy filming shoot. Overall, it seems like Michael Bay was quite difficult at times. Says here there's a lot of tensions during the shooting between Michael Bay and Walt Disney Studio executives. Oh, Bay on the commentary track, I guess, recalls the time he was preparing to leave for set to go have a meeting. And Sean Connery Came walking by, it says he's dressing, golfing attire. I don't know why that matters, but Connery is also a producer on the movie. And when he found out where he was going, he's like, all right, I'm coming with. And I guess when Bay showed up to the, the meeting and had Sean Connery rolling with him, like, everyone's like. And Sean Connor's like, no, he's doing a great job. Leave him alone. Let him make the movie the way he's supposed to.

Use Sean Connor as leverage.

He did like Jiu jitsu.

Exactly like jiu Jitsu.

Also, I guess Michael Bay mentions that Sean Connery a lot of times would remind him that, like, they need to make sure they rehearse the scenes a little bit more and go a little slower in the mornings. Just take your time getting.

So Sean Connery had to remind the director and producer of the movie.

Well, we're. Well, let's rehearse. Well, dear Lord, let's, let's get around to this.

Well, he is a season actor. You know, he's got lots of helpful advice like, you know, don't just jump right in in the mornings. You got to warm up a little bit.

Was Michael Bay the director or the producer?

He's the director.

Okay, so Gary Bruckheimer is a producer.

Yep.

Your favorite.

So let's, let's, let's jump right to, to Mr. Bay right now.

Okay, let's do it.

We haven't, we haven't done a lot of Michael Bay talk before.

That surprise is the first time we've talked about him.

It may actually be. Tony Scott was originally supposed to direct this movie, but he turned it down and said to direct the fan.

Oh, great.

This is Michael Bay's favorite movie of his own that he's made.

Okay.

Despite the fact that he also turned this movie down six months prior before finally saying yes and said the story just wasn't serious enough for him.

Oh, really?

For him? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, he's a very serious filmmaker.

Yeah. According to Mr. Bay, the original script, it was supposed to be more straight and serious than the final movie was.

Okay.

A lot of improv going on in this

page. Going off the handle a little bit on these.

I wonder if Zeus's butthole was a.

That's not in the movie. I guarantee it.

Much of Nicholas Cage's dialogue was ad libbed, including Zeus's butthole line, which Michael Bay wanted cute. Insisted on having. So I, from, from what I'm, from what I'm seeing. So I love that.

I love that.

Yeah. So Michael Bay, he came from. He had a big history of doing music videos. Richard Marks, he did a couple for Donny Osmond for Chicago. He did one for Young mc. He did a couple for Vanilla Ice for Tina.

How many music videos did Young MC have?

Not many. And he didn't do the only one, right? He had like two or three. But Michael Bay didn't do the one that actually mattered. So. Okay, same thing with V Ice. He didn't do Ice Ice Baby. He did some other songs.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Didn't know what he cared about. He did one for Chicago. He did one for Sticks. He did something for Tina Turner. What he do for sticks, not Mr. Roboto.

Come sail Away.

Come Sail Away.

You didn't do Come Sail Away, Renegade. I. I don't have it pulled up

in front of me.

But what I do know is that

in 19 got more sticks knowledge than I. Than I thought.

I like steaks.

But in 1993, he directed Meatloafs. I do anything for love, but I won't do that.

Is that his biggest song, you think?

Sadly, it probably is, because of when it came out and not based on how good it is. I listen to Meatloaf Spat out of Hell at least once or twice a year. Like the. The full album from like 1975. I even have it on cassette. It's really good and I like it a lot. And I don't listen to any other meatloaf other than that.

Well, does. Is there any other meatloaf other than that?

Well, the. This one from 1993. I think it's B. Hell 2. Return to Hell. I think it's the name of the album.

Oh, Return to Hell.

Yeah.

Another is A Battle of Hell too.

No, but the first one's really good. I like it a lot. Now, that's 1993, huh?

Great year.

1995. He has first featured directorial debut with Bad Boys Protect a witness to. To a murder while investigating a case of stolen heroin from the evidence storage room of their own police precinct.

I forgot.

He directed Smith Stars, Martin Lawrence. It led to three sequels. Michael Bay directed the second one as well. If you've ever watched any of these movies. I've seen three of the four. I don't like these movies, so I did not need to see the fourth one. I don't like these. I don't like.

Don't like Bad Boys.

No. And I watched. I. I watched 1 and 2 right before the third one came out and realized that like, I. I Don't care for these movies. So when the fourth one just came out recently, I. I had no interest at all.

What you going to do?

There's a big difference in the quality and directing style between the. The first two. So Michael Bay got a little more under his belt between doing the first one in 1995 and when he ended up doing the second one.

The first bad boys is 1995.

Yes. Wow. So this movie here, the Rock, his second movie that he made.

Okay.

Wow, that's crazy.

And they followed this up with Armageddon right after that.

Oh, okay.

Of course, a couple of movies he did was Pain and Gain. He also did Pearl harbor, the Rock.

Yep.

Mark Wahlberg in the Rock and Pain and Gain. He also did Pearl harbor with Ben Affleck.

He did that, too.

Well, yeah, he did some other movies. I don't remember what they're called, though.

Transformers 1.

Oh, the Transformers series.

Yeah.

Damn it, Terry.

He didn't do Bumblebee, which is the best of the Transformers.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

These were.

These were pretty integral to my childhood. Transformers 1, 2, and 3.

The guy who did. Who's doing the new Masters of the Universe did the Bumblebee movie.

Oh, if he did Bumblebee, then I bet you Masters Universe is good.

I do believe he also did Kubo and the Two Strings.

That's a great film.

Well, then. Then Masters of the Universe has got to be good. That. I think that's.

That's the shocking part. That's not.

Anyway, but you haven't seen it.

I don't give a. I've seen enough of it already.

You know it's going to be good. You're just scared to admit it.

Anyway, there's.

There's some writers saw it, but he. He's trying not to like.

No, I have not. I have not seen. I would tell you guys immediately that I've seen it and warn you not to go watch it. So, anyway, writers David Weisberg and Douglas Cook. The only other thing they did was

Double Jeopardy with Ashley Judd.

Yeah. I think she's put on trial for.

Yeah. And what's. What's his face. Timely. Jones is in that, too, isn't he? Yeah.

She's put on. Is she put on trial for, like, murdering her husband? And then once she's. They say that she didn't do it. Like, somehow he still.

No, no. She. She gets convicted for murdering somebody. Murdering her husband, but then it turns out her husband's still alive.

Oh, yeah.

That's what it is.

And so I've never Seen. I just remember for the trailers. So. And then, therefore, she can't be convicted of killing him again because she's already. For killing him once.

Oh, right. So it's free game. She can kill him whenever she wants.

Yeah. So she hunts him down and kills him, I believe.

What a great loophole.

What a great loophole. Yeah.

You just need the person that you're accused of killing to actually have faked the whole thing and still be alive.

Yes.

To. To ruin your life. And then once you get out on parole or whatever, you go out and hunt them down and kill him.

Yeah. It's all within the law.

It's fair game, considering you already. The time for murder.

Yeah. It's very spread. Still early.

So that was the only thing I recognized from these two guys. Like, okay, they only had, like, four things listed. And I'd like. There's this and. And the rock. Now, Quentin Tarantino is an uncredited screenwriter on this movie, along with Johnson Hensley, who helped write the shooting script, and apparently Aaron Sorkin.

Okay.

According to Michael Bay, the script was written, like I said, much more straight and serious than what they end up doing with the final movie. And most of the humorous moments and lines are improvised during filming.

That's master filmmaking right there.

Yeah. I think a lot of Nicholas Cage's stuff is improvised. I don't think Sean Connery does a lot of improvising.

No. Yeah.

It doesn't. Doesn't seem like. Comes across doing that. So. Speaking of, Mr. Connery was not the first choice to do this. Arnold Schwarzenegger was offered the role.

Oh.

To play John Mason. But at the time, the script was only 80 pages with a lot of handwriting and scribbles and didn't seem fully baked.

It didn't.

Now, John Mason is very much an Arnold Schwarzenegger character name.

Yes, it is. Yeah.

And I would love him in this movie, I think.

Yes.

There's a lot of people in this movie.

It's the one guy that escaped Alcatraz

when it comes to the rock.

Yeah. Gentlemen.

Yeah.

I've memorized the timing. I can't fit anymore. I'm too ripped.

By the way, that. Oh, yeah, that's. He would never make it through that thing.

No.

He just ripped that door open with his bare hands. He doesn't need a rope.

Exactly.

How did you get out the first time? Oh, yeah, I just opened it myself. Yeah.

Yeah.

Hulk style.

Yeah. So Arnold was almost in this. Despite being first build, Sean Connery doesn't even show up until at least about 25 minutes into the movie.

Only. Only 25 minutes.

Yes.

They hold him back.

So we've talked about Sean Connery for. We don't spent a lot of time on him. He's the original James Bond.

Yeah.

Went through a lot of movies that we talked about that he did before for that. He's in a little movie called Time Bandits.

Oh, he is.

Wink, wink, wheel.

Wink, wink, wheel. The wheel doesn't choose what we put on there.

Mark it up already, Derek. Mark it up already.

All right.

He was also in Highlander.

Okay.

Movie that they're. That they're getting a remake right now with Henry Cavill and Dave Batista.

Batista is confirmed to be in that.

Yeah, he's the villain guy.

I kind of like that idea.

I don't.

I don't know who's playing the Sean car, the Sean Conory based Cav.

Right?

No, Caval's playing the. The main guy, the like the young immortal guy.

I've never seen Highlander, so I don't know who the characters are.

John Conory is like the mentor figure.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. They need to remake this movie because it could use some improving.

Yeah, they're filming it right now. Yeah, Henry Cavill and Batista, they've been filmed for like the last year.

Henry Cavill is a good casting choice for that.

Now in 1988, Sean Connery won the Oscar for best supporting Actor for his role as Jim Malone in 1997's The Untouchables. Of course, classic movie directed by Brian De Palma, written by David Mamet. It stars Kevin Costner, Sean Connery and Robert De Niro. Based during permission. Treasury agent Elliot Ness, who is also credit is writer on this because I think it's just based off his memoir or his autobiography. Elliot sets up the stop Ruth's Chicago Gangster, Al Capone and some was a small incorruptible team to help him. And Nicholas Cage presented the best act, the best supporting actor award to Sean Connery for this. That year he got to be the guy who presented him with the award. Now here's the interesting thing. This is another reason I picked the Rock because I thought this would be fun to talk about. There is a theory and rumor out there that the Rock is a Bond film.

What? Okay.

Yes, so. So it's revealed that John Mason does not exist. At least as far as government records are concerned. There's no trace of him. The Rock states that Mason was arrested and sent to Alcatraz in 1962, escaping in 1963, the same. The same year the second and too many of the of the best Bond films, From Russia with Love was released takes place now apparently in Russia from Love, Sylvia Trench berates James for ignoring her for six months. And people seem like six months be the perfect amount of time for James Bond to, if he got stuck in Alcatraz to figure out how to get out.

Okay.

I mean, also the reason Mason is imprisoned during the events of the Rock is that he stole the microfilm containing FBI secrets. Now the smoking gun is the fact that the film seems to imply that the microfilm was stolen after the death of J. Edgar Hoover in 1972. Connery's last official Bond movie came out in 1971. And it's plausible that Diamonds are Forever, which was his. Has some great scenes and was his last film, was Bond's last successful mission before being arrested as John Mason the following year. Mason being a undercover name for him. And also they do say that Mason worked for. He works for MI6.

All right, well, maybe that's true.

Yeah.

So, I mean, so it's some, I mean it's not the, the best of details all, but there's some nice little threads that kind of connect some stuff there. I, and I, I like stuff like this.

It's.

You could fit it right in the timeline. Yeah.

This movie also stars Ed Harris. Sean Connery won an Oscar. Nick Cage is an Oscar winner. Ed Harris is actually a four time Oscar nominee.

Nice. Wow.

Yep. He's up for an Apollo 13. He's nominated again for the Truman Show. Also the hours, all of those were for best supporting. And then he was for lead in the movie Pollock, which. Where he played Jackson Pollock, the artist. Yep. He also played things like John Glenn in the Right Stuff, Dave Moss and Glengarry Glen Ross, which we've talked about before. Here he reunited with Nicholas Cage for National Treasure Book of Secrets. Oh, and in 1993 he played sheriff Alan Pengborn in Needful Things.

Oh, wow.

Mysterious new shop opens in small town which always seems to stock the deepest desires of each shopper with a price far heavier than expected. Starring Ed Harris, Max von Sydow and J.T. walsh.

I've heard this. I've heard that's a pretty good story by Stephen King. I need to read that.

Yeah. And it's also, I don't know if you put it on IMDb and you list it. I think that seems like it's something that's like legit, but it says it's like unconfirmed. But he's the voice in Field of Dreams.

Build it and they will come.

Yes, he says that that's what that's it says. But it also says it's unconfirmed. Well, if the it. I don't know why it's not IMDb then if it's unconfirmed, normally they say, like. They say, like, uncredited and stuff like that.

He'll never admit to it. That's the problem. You could interrogate him for hours and he'll never say it.

Maybe. Maybe he's so embarrassed by it. He hates Field of Dreams.

That's my worst role I've ever done.

Like, why? Why did I do that?

He hates that movie with a passion.

He got paid a bunch of money, but he won't spend it. Like, it's just like. It's like blood money to him. He just hates field dreams.

He stashed it away somewhere, just never to be seen. Yeah, baseball.

I hate ghosts. I hate Shoeless Joe Jackson and the 1918 Chicago Black Sox. I hate it all.

I'm gonna bury this money deep in the ocean so nobody can ever touch it.

I don't blame him.

I've never seen the movie, so I don't know.

You've never seen Field of Dreams?

No.

Seems like a movie you would have seen. Keith.

Yeah, that seems like a Keith movie right there if I've ever heard one.

For the baseball movie guy.

I'm not the baseball movie guy. I'm the romcom guy, remember? Unless. Unless you're watching Bull Durham, then it's both. Yes. And we've already done a huge deep dive last two weeks on Nicholas Cage. But I did want to run down some stuff here because he's. Originally, he was going to be called Bill Goodspeed in this movie.

Okay.

And then he changed it to that. And I guess what's his name signed off on.

What's the name of this? It's good. It's good speed. What's his first name?

Stanley.

Stanley Goodspeed. All right.

So, yeah, it's a much, much better name. And I guess he had to get Sean Connery's approval for that.

Why? John Connery had to prove it.

Henry was a producer on the movie, so he had, you know.

But what's wrong with Bill Goodspeed?

This doesn't have the same ring to it as Stanley Goodspeed. That's pretty lame. Especially when you consider. Nicholas Cage has played some roles with some great names. We've. We've already mentioned a couple different times that he's played Ghost Rider, so. Johnny Blaze.

Yes.

He's played Caster Troy in Face off, which was the movie between Conair and the rock. It's like 18 month session of action amazement. He played. He played Memphis Reigns in gone in 60 seconds.

Yep. Yeah, that's great.

In Raising Arizona, he's hi McDonough.

I like that one.

Yep. Little Junior Brown in Kiss of Death.

I like that too.

He actually plays Fu Manchu in that little grindhouse trailer thing that he. Little trailer movie in the. The grindhouse double feature thing. Yep. In Lords of War, he plays Yuri Orloff.

Okay.

Yep. Derek, the movie you almost picked. Left behind plays Rayford Steele.

Oh, that's a good name.

But yeah, I guarantee Left behind is probably worse than Jiu Jitsu.

You think?

Yes, probably hard to do, but probably.

We'll never know unless we pick it and then.

Damn it, I forgot to write down which movie this was part of. But he plays a guy named Enrico Silvestri.

Enrique Sylvester.

Yes. And it was Nicolas Cage's idea that his character would not swear throughout the entire thing is also. And it doesn't. It shows up in like, like the little like trivia stuff and then it's not even a big deal in the rest of the movie. But like when he gets, he gets some Beatles album they spent like 600 bucks on or whatever.

They don't play a single Beatles song in the entire movie.

Well, no, he. Apparently in his real life, he was like tired of CDs. It was starting to get back into vinyl. So he made that like, I think he just improvised it through that line into the movie. It just sticks there, but like it never comes up again. Like there's never, like, there's no payout of like, oh, we need like, we've got like a vinyl record to like stop something later. Like, there's no, there's just this mention of it here. And so putting it into like the little Trivia Notes on IMDb I was like, well, that's great that he put it in there. But like, there's, it's, there's nothing. It's not like a thing that actually connects to like anything bigger. It's just he opens up a record because that's what he thought his character would do.

What I thought was hilarious about that is he gets his Beatles record. I know we're not. We're still in the deep dive, but he gets the Beatles record and then he has a really bad day, so he goes home to chill out and listen to some music. But it's not the Beatles.

Yeah, no, it's nice. It's himself playing guitar well, there was, like.

There was, like, 60s pop playing, but it wasn't the Beatles.

Yeah.

And apparently he got. He got in, like, decent shape for this movie, and he was annoyed that there was no scenes where he could, like, have his shirt off or anything. And that's why they have the scene with him sitting there with the guitar with no shirt on. Like, appease him and put him in there.

Yeah.

Last little. Last little thing I'll put in here. This movie also has Michael Bean in it. I guess some of the Navy seals in this movie were actually played by real Navy seals.

Okay.

And Michael Biehn told Michael Bay a couple different times that he was freezing up during trying to act, pretending to be the leader in front of them because he wasn't a real Navy seal, even though he played one before in another movie. He just kept freezing up around, like, the real guys, I guess, as well as. Like, also around Sean Connery in general as well.

Oh, God damn it.

Nice.

I think we got pretty close there. I mean, we even talked about being a fake James Bond movie.

That is. That's really close. That's like. We got deeper into the rock than anyone would ever expected someone to.

Yeah, I. We. We rolled right through the fiery. Whatever that was.

Indiana Jones subterrane.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some sort of mechanism that seems to be installed surely, like, just solely to, like, stop people from going in there.

Yep.

Why not just make a wall there? I don't know.

Oh, yeah. That part was like the video game. Yeah. Then. But then there was also, like, the. The minecarts and stuff underneath Alcatraz, which I don't.

Yeah, just keep them, I guess. Yeah. Why not just leave the minecarts there?

Yeah.

All right. What are you gonna do with them? It's an island.

I know. You gotta. I guess they mine stuff there and.

Yeah, why not? Maybe that's.

Maybe that's why they did a laundry at Alcatraz. Is, like, deep in the bowels of the island.

You had to use the water, the fresh water that's hidden deep within the island.

They use, like, geothermal power to, like, wash clothes.

It's actually, like, a nice aquifer deep underground.

Yep. We got really close to the rock. So close that I feel like we're in the rock and we'll never escape. We need to talk about our viewing of the rock then, don't we?

Yeah, well, we're all stuck in ourselves. We might as well just talk about it.

Well, we need to do it. We need to talk about our viewing of the Rock from 1996,

on the 30th anniversary.

This is. That still blow my mind that 30 years ago at this same time I was probably. Was probably like a nine o' clock show. That means we're hour into it. We still hadn't got to them getting to the rock yet.

You're giggling with excitement because the halfway

point, it's like literally like an hour and 13 minutes into the movie, or an hour and eight minutes in the movie is. Is when they bust up through the sewer grates and everybody gets killed.

That's when everything changes.

Everything changes after that. But before that you have all that amazing going on beforehand.

Yeah.

Any chance this is the, this is the movie we were going to see when we got pulled over by the cops?

No, that was Apollo. That was Apollo 13.

Okay.

I remember that very. But that Harris, I remember that very specific. Specifically and distinctly. I could tell you exactly where it was. It was on Midland Avenue in Joliet, Illinois. But that's neither here nor there either.

Definitely it should be here, but it's not.

I guess you guys aren't like chomping at the bit to talk about this movie.

No, we, we can, we can talk about this. I got, I got thoughts. I got lot thoughts on it.

All right, well, was your pick, Keith, what are your thoughts? Lead us off.

First of all, I, I really. I enjoyed this movie quite a bit. I think there's some. I think there's some really cool action scenes in this. They're. They're very over the top, but they, it fits right into kind of what movies in that time period were doing. But there is a lot of, like, there's a lot of stuff that could have. Could have been left on the cutting room floor. Again, they talk about like it's 25 minutes before we see Sean Conory on the screen. Like it really takes him along to get the setup for what's going on with Ed Harris's character and, and his crew rolling out there. I just, I don't think you needed all that.

Well, you need at least that Harris stuff, because that's.

Yeah, no, I. No, I mean, I know. I think it just needed to be sped up in their process of getting there and taking over the. Taking over Alcatraz. There's a long, long lead up to it and eventually he gives a whole speech to his crew about like what they're doing it for anyway. So he kind of could have recapped, you know, recapped everybody on it. I, I don't think he needed to go and you Know, talk to his wife's grave before he went out in the. What seemed like a monsoon.

Now that the Ed Harris stuff was the most. Probably the best part of the movie.

Yeah, I agree with that.

No, I'm. I'm saying. I'm saying how long. Like that first 25 minutes is pret. All just the setup of getting no. 2 Alcatraz, and there's not a lot of action there outside of, I guess, like, introducing the Cage's character, Nick Cage.

Diffuse the bomb with his buddy who never shows up again in the. The movie.

He shows up later on. He's going to work at Orin and make roach fails. Yeah, he. It. It just.

It's.

So there's some other parts. Like in the movie, there's like a quick, like, bam, bam, bam of like. That didn't work. This thing's ready. Okay. Boom. Like, call the President. Like, there's like a feel.

Like all that Preza stuff. Yeah. Just keep that out there. I get it. You can just say, like, the President's still thinking about it, and I'm good.

I don't. I also didn't think he needed to have Mason trying to escape to go find his daughter. But also the Nick Cage trying to survive because he now found out he's gonna have a kid. I don't think you need both of those. Like, the Nick Cage kid thing probably actually makes a little more sense because Mason just wants to get out and, like, live his life because he's been stuck in the, you know, in the prison for 30 years couple. These little things could have been tightened up a little bit and we could add a little bit like an even better movie. But I really enjoyed a lot of the action. I thought the dialogue was a lot better than what we saw in Con Air, which was just insanely over the top 90s dialogue. This seems a little bit more tame outside of the Zeus's butthole line.

Yeah. The clip we should is not the best example of that.

The.

The chase scene when he get. When he escapes. Like, it's. It's great. I mean, it's a real fun movie all. All around.

This is a what chase scene that. The Humvee and the Ferrari chase scene.

Yes. Yeah. I loved it.

Oh, like, to me, that is. You were just talking about how you don't. You don't need Sean Connory and his daughter. That's the only reason that chase scene exists.

It is. And they. Yes, but they. They probably could have figured out some other way without him. Have to introduce the daughter that doesn't come back around at all ever again either. Those are just small things like, like I could have easily, you know, again, just getting down to like a flat two hours for the most part. Like I. June 7, 1990. This is like a, you know, early summer, like still kicking off summer movie season. It's a great movie for that.

Yeah, I was a little more mixed on. I thought the, there was some decent action, but I felt like it was very lifeless to me. Like I didn't really care about what was going on. I liked the Ed Harris thing because I felt like I could understand his motivation and I felt like the tension of his like, conflict within himself. That's the most interesting stuff in the movie is him. Like, do I really have to go through with what I've promised I'm going to go through with like killing all these people just to make my point kind of thing. Like, I like his weird internal debate and then I feel like all the other characters are not nearly as interesting. Like I like Nick Cage kind of, I think it, he's more funny, but he's not that funny. I think at least in Con Air, he was a little more over the top with his bad Alabama accent. This, he just kind of has his normal voice and I think Sean Connor does a good job. It's just, yeah, he doesn't. I think that the daughter thing kind of is a little boring. It's not that exciting.

And, and if in it's superfluous because it, it doesn't really result in anything or amount to anything, a lot, A lot, like a lot of this movie doesn't really amount to anything. I, I, I agree that Ed Harris and his motivation and his struggles with being a bad guy after being a legend and a hero is interesting. I, I found the, that his marines that he has with him that like, once we took hostages, we became mercenaries. They were all bloodthirsty wannabe killers.

Like, like they all weren't for the money. They all wanted the money.

Let's launch this missile. And they're all like salivating and rubbing their hands together like, do it, do it, do it.

He picks the wrong guys to do this.

Like all of them, like even, even his main homeboy turns on him there at the end and, but who's A

lot of people, a lot of people who are going to sign up for his mission are going to be kind of unhinged, I feel like.

Yeah, I guess so.

I think he had like three guys that like, like one guy that had been hanging out with him Since Vietnam. Two other guys he had led during Desert Storm. And then he gets those two guys. He gets Candyman or whatever the other guy was and.

Oh yeah, Candy, Candyman and Boggs. That's the guy from, from Shawshank Redemption that assaults Andy Dufresne.

Oh, wow. Another prison movie.

So those are two guys who he, he didn't never. He had never worked with before. They just.

Yeah.

Also.

Also Dr. Cox from Scrubs.

Oh, yeah.

He's completely jacked in this movie. Like it's. I. He was just in that show Rooster on hbo. The Steve Carell's sitcom thing that's over on there, which I actually really enjoyed a lot. And he's in that. He's kind of a, you know, an older fitness guy during. In his thing there. So he's always got it. He's like in a steam room with his shirt off a lot. And he's not nowhere near in his much shape as he was for this movie. I mean, he just looks, he looks completely different. Like you wouldn't recognize him.

Yeah. Yeah. You'd be surprised what 30 years will do to a person.

Yeah. But also just like his size and all. Like, even when he's on Scrubs, he's not like a real big guy on there. It looked like he really put a lot of muscle for this.

Yeah. Thing I like, I, I don't know. And this movie is fine. It was a movie. We watched it. I don't know. Like, to me the action is. Is comical because it's like they're already on Alcatraz and they feel like they're conjuring up locations on this island. Like the underground tunnel system and like these cliffs and the minecart mine carts. And then, and then here's a video game timing sequence of rolling between fire and like all this. It's like to me, it's like weirdly unnecessary, you know, like it's already Alcatraz. Right. So you think there have to be. Maybe there isn't. Maybe Alcatraz is really boring. So they're like, well, we, we need to have an underground tunnel system that has. And 50 foot pit drops and stuff like that.

I think Michael, Michael Bean says like the thing's been kind of like.

Michael Bean.

Is that what his name is that his name.

Michael Bay.

Michael B. Michael Bean, the guy from Terminator. Who's the. He's leading the, the folks in this one. He's leading the. The Navy SEALs guys in this.

Oh, he's the guy who.

He's the guy who Stands up and, like, he's arguing with him, then gets shot to pieces in the.

No, I, I'd be. I guess I don't remember. I didn't recognize him.

You didn't recognize. He's John Connor from the first Terminator?

Yeah, yeah. Like, I, Sorry. I, I haven't seen the first Terminator in a very long time. I couldn't tell you your indignation with, with me not seeing things or me not remembering stuff from four years ago.

Well, I, I mean, I just, I mentioned him in the deep dive.

Yeah, I, I know, and I just rolled with it. I'm like, I don't know who that is.

Okay.

He explains during the thing that, like, they, they had, like, they terminated her

at all until just now. You just said Michael Bean. It's like, all right, it's a dude. I thought you. I thought it was the old guy that was his friend. I don't, I'm like, I don't think that's his name, but okay.

I kept thinking of that little goofy guy. Bean.

Mr. Bean.

He's in this. I don't remember that.

But all right, it wasn't Mr. Bean, but Michael Bean. But when he's in there, he's explaining that they've, like, kind of had to rebuild parts of Alcatraz a couple times, so that whole underground thing is, like, all just kind of torn up, which I think is why. Then it looks like, you know, you're getting a bunch of different things that look like they're kind of so, so

placed together like underground caverns and

system.

I, I know it's. I, I, I, I had, I had problems with it. And then, like, the, the, the weapon is a bunch of glass balls hanging off a fishing line.

That looks kind of cool.

All right. Like, like, I mean, that's cool. Like, it adds the detention. Like, oh, it's very dangerous. But, you know, they just kind of handle them in a way that makes you think that they shouldn't.

You know, like when he, like when he grabs one and then puts it

in his front shirt pocket, and you

would, like, you would get smashed there and not him having time to then, like, reach in, grab it, and shove them off.

How breakable are these things? Because he does drop one at one point. It rolls around.

Yeah, rolls around.

I feel like if it was in a missile, you can make them pretty sturdy because they're gonna explode, right?

Yeah, yeah. The point is the, the mechanism will, will break them open, whatever. So there's that. And then I just, I just thought of it too. Because when I saw it I was like what, how, when did that happen? Because they, they, they have the scene with Nick Cage early on where the terrorists are just ruining. How can you even have a kid in this world? So there's like the giant horse needle that they have to stab themselves in the heart with.

Check out needle.

But I don't know what that needle is, what it, what it contained. Like what's it. What is going to stop from like anti acid acid burning your skin off. I didn't understand what that was going to help.

Sure.

Well, I think I, I think it's supposed to be like one of those. You know was in Pulp Fiction where they have to.

That's adrenaline.

Adrenaline.

Yeah. I think it's a similar thing because they tell him the one hurry up and take the shot so you don't pass out when he's trying to like to do the stop the one bomb at like the FBI center place.

Okay.

And so I think that they're telling him to do that so that he, he hits the adrenaline before he starts to pass out so he can continue to move on with, with doing that. I don't know how that's supposed to stop some weird flesh melting virus that the guy who you just shoved into his mouth like bit it and broke it open right in front of you. How that thing was gonna stop it.

Yeah, I thought it was a cure of some kind. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm telling. If there's a cure for that, just go ahead and give it to me now. I'll take it and then hopefully just be immune forever. Right?

Yeah. Whatever that is.

No, I, I think it, I think it was supposed to be an adrenaline type thing.

Maybe it boosts your immune system.

Yes, it's. What is it applied directly to your forehead sort of thing.

Applied directly to your heart. I feel better. Imagine you take all your medicine straight to the heart. Wouldn't that suck?

Yes. Especially with that giant needle. It was huge.

Better take my allergy pills today.

Just needle to the heart every morning. Ibuprofen needle. Yeah. You'd be really profan.

You be think about that headache a little bit more.

You know, like his, his buddy. Like his whole, you know, mask is all fogged up so he can't see anything. They're like just his. He goes, I can't even see.

And the gas was melting his suit off of.

You're gonna make a hole in the suit with the needle.

Yeah, that was the other thing I thought was weird. I was like, you're gonna just have, I guess.

Okay. I don't really know what the point of that needle is now I think about it.

Yeah.

I really think it was just like an adrenaline thing to keep them from passing out, like, as they were trying to.

It doesn't make sense later on, though. Like, what's he need that for?

Because he's got to be, like, a cure or something.

Yeah.

It doesn't make. It doesn't make any sense to leak.

I would just take the needle right away. Why. Why are we all waiting to do this if it can cure me? Yeah. I don't know what it does. Maybe you're right. Maybe just supposed to boost you, keep you. Keep you up for longer or something. I don't know.

But, like, the. The first time they introduce this because, like, the fumes from whatever it was were toxic and if they. And as it was melting through their suit, it was going to make them pass out.

Huh.

That.

The other thing doesn't say it's gonna pass out. It says you're basically just gonna melt.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're gonna be. You're gonna.

And you're gonna be wide awake and noticing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is true.

It could be two different needles because it's two different materials.

Who knows?

Yeah.

All it is is Chekhov's heart stab is all it is.

They wanted to bring it back so that they could then have him be focused enough to remember that he's got to light up the green flares. Oh, yeah.

That is very important, the green flares.

Yeah. Otherwise they blow up the whole thing. Which, by the way, I don't know where he is compared to where those other people were, but it seemed like they took out a pretty big section of Alcatraz that, like, there's no way they saved all 81 of those people.

They don't mention them ever again. So I don't know what happened.

And you don't. You don't see them in there. And they're locked up in cages, too.

Like, they haven't been able to use the bathroom or get any food for the last, like, two days.

Bullets are flying everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, but. But. So they're locked up, but then they lock up Nick Cage in and Sean Connery in a different wing, I guess.

Yeah, it seems like. Yeah. We're like in the wing over by where they were to do their stuff and.

Yeah. And why do they have the missiles on, like, six different floors? It's like a video game.

You should keep them all together, probably.

You think well, then you can just stop in one place and get them all.

Yeah, that's the point, right? Like,

you had to at least have one that was off someplace else because you have to have, like, a backup plan, I guess.

But you're.

Yeah, you're right. Like, it only makes sense to, like, scatter them across the island. So that way if anybody came, they would have to, like, beat a boss and then get that. Get that missile, then go to. Go to the bottom of the lighthouse together one.

And then. And if nobody shows up, it's just gonna take an extra six hours to lug these missiles back to where they're supposed to go.

Yeah, exactly.

How are they even launching a missile out of. Out of Alcatraz? Is there a missile silo there or something? How does a missile work? I guess. I don't know.

They brought them with. They brought those little launchers with them.

They had missile launchers and like, the dudes. Do you like the song Rocket Man?

I love that.

Because you're the rocket man. And he's as. He stands directly in front of a missile.

As soon as it brings up Rocket Man, I'm moving to the side.

Like, are you saying that because I'm standing in front of a rocket? Are you gonna shoot me with this thing? Yeah.

Wait, what do you mean by that? Hold on. No, hold on.

Bring up Rocket Man. I'm standing in front of a missile, not a rocket.

Geez.

Yeah. What an idiot. That's not even the right.

Paul, it's not even the right term.

It's rocket propeller propelled. Sure, but it's not a rocket. It's a missile.

Yeah, your. Your little pun analogy doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I did like that line, though.

Stick to the script, Cage.

Yeah, he was definitely improving that, wasn't he?

Yeah, you like. You like the song Missile man because you're the missile man.

Is that better? Is that better?

I don't think Nick Cage was very entertaining in this movie. Like, I couldn't tell what he's supposed to be. Was he supposed to be like a nerd or what?

Or tough guy? Yeah, he does. He doesn't really find that balance because it's like he wants to be both. He wants to be nerdy, but then everyone's a. He doesn't like the car chase thing. I'm like, whoa.

Yeah, he's. He's chasing.

With a Ferrari and he's doing a really good job. And then. But then they act like, oh, but he's. He's with desk jockey. He doesn't know what he's doing. It's like he just did a crazy car chase and then he's beaten up. I mean, he does get beat up pretty good by those Marines, but he does pretty good against them and has a pretty cool tough guy.

Holds his own man. And he murders the hell out of that one guy.

Yeah.

Shoots him like 10 times.

Yeah, they should. He should have went in all in on one or the other tough guy or not. Yeah.

Like, if you would have told me that Arnold Schwarzenegger was originally supposed to be Nick Cage's role.

Yes. Let me defuse the chemical.

Yeah, if he, if he was the.

The.

The chemical nerd desk jockey, that would be awesome.

I would. That would be such like, the opposite, you know, But I mean, like the total unexpected role. He's. Ah, yes. I've never killed a man. I've never heard the fly.

He's just an Austrian scientist.

That's all I understood. Stand chemicals to the highest degree.

That's what it should have been.

That would be really cool. It's a really buff guy. He's like that shot. Connor.

Yeah.

What was your role?

I just like the fact I'm like, trying to roll through that thing though, and getting stuck.

Counter terrorism.

I wasn't. I wasn't as big before.

Or he could just smash through the wall like the Kool Aid Man.

Yeah.

You wouldn't need Sean Connery's help to get out.

No, he's just gonna. He's gonna be the Juggernaut and just run through the walls.

This movie would be better with Arnold. Like I like with Juggernaut would be awesome. This movie would be better with, like, a team of mutants to come stop the terrorists. Right.

Yeah, I agree.

Send in the X factor. Yes. Give me. Yeah. Like Wolverine going in there and taking everyone out.

I don't know the Terminator. It's.

Sure. Yeah, we'll throw him.

Oh, yeah. Mortal Kombat game.

Yeah, it's a different version of the Terminator.

Leatherface is there Leatherface and Homelander technology. Scream guy.

Yes, they're all there. And they mentioned Mortal Kombat. They mentioned you've been trained in Mortal Kombat.

They do say that. Oh, Raiden shows up. It just starts. Why not? I agree. So maybe it would be better, much

better movie if they just. If they just brought a bunch of, like, crazed people along.

Arnold. Robocop.

Yeah.

Conan.

Just a collection of pop culture monsters and killers and strongmen.

Oh, it's. It's just. But it's. What if it's just repeat Arnold. It's just all different characters.

All different Arnold characters. Yeah, sure.

Predator from Commando. You get a kindergarten copy.

Kindergarten?

Yeah.

You get. He's there for like comic relief type stuff, but you get all the different versions. Yeah.

And Mr. Bean can be there too.

Twins.

Arnold, Mr. Bean and Leatherface all walked into a bar. Why not?

I love the idea of. I love this idea of like a terrorist attack. Some sort of well known area. Alcatraz. Sure. And the government's like, all right. The only thing we can do is send in like the most depraved serial killer known to man. Drop Leatherface in there. Like, we can't guarantee anyone's safety, but we know he's gonna kill everyone. Just send them in.

Yeah, I love it.

Killed off all those other marines, but then he started to go after the as well.

I like the idea of Leatherface dropping in like it's a fort being a fortnight soon parasailing into the island.

We do have one more. We do have one more option. That's not an option. He's not real.

He's your cheese in the background. Yeah.

Or it's. Or like it's, you know, Jason before he.

Yeah. That's not saying the government.

Yeah. They're like, we have one guy, he's been in prison for 30 years. We've never announced his presence because he's some sort of supernatural being. And it's Jason Voorhees. Yeah. And then it's like, we know we can't kill him. We've tried a million ways. Now we can send him into Alcatraz and it's the best place to send him because he'll never escape because he's surrounded by water.

I'm sorry, but this is a billion dollar idea.

This is a good idea.

It doesn't have to actually be like Leatherface. You take the cabin in the woods. Sort of like tongue in cheek sort of approach to it.

Yes.

But it is a government agency consisting of the worst slashers and serial killers. Yes. Are legally distinct from the ones that exist in our world.

You know who that. Who it's supposed to be? Yeah.

Isn't this just Suicide Squad? Is that what we're doing here?

No, because it's Jason Voorhees and it's Leatherface and it's Freddy Krueger and it's Chucky.

Oh, well, we're saying them in. It's not to, like, take some time off their sentence or anything.

No. God, no.

We're going to take the secret government Hit squad.

Like not on purpose. They just know that if they drop them in everything there's going to die.

There's lepr. We're taking.

We're taking out. We're taking out the Marines.

Leprechaun.

That would be so awesome. Leprechaun and our ace in the hole. Leprechaun. Our escape artist.

Yeah.

Pop in and out of cells and

they gotta work together as a team.

The xenomorph shows up.

Yeah.

Do it like it's an island because they can't escape. See, it's perfect. We have to. Can only use them in special situations.

It's like, yes, the government's about this.

They're about to shut us down because we never send these guys out anywhere. But now we finally have our chance to prove why our agency should exist. That's a good idea. Like honestly, I think.

All right. Did we do it, boyos? Did we get through the rock from 1996?

Guess so.

Did we did.

Yeah, I suppose so.

Well, what do we think about the Rock from 1996?

Thumbs up.

Keith gives it the thumbs up. I knew that was happening.

I thought it was okay. Not. I didn't love it, didn't hate it. Very generic. I felt like for the most part I thought Sean Connery did good. Nicholas Cage, little disappointing, but every once in a while did something kind of funny. I think you just need to pick a side. But honestly, the villain was the most interesting character. Could just had a whole movie about him and his internal debate about should I become a full blown terrorist or not. I don't know. I. There's a lot of pros and cons to this. I feel like it's just. It didn't. It wasn't what I was hoping for. I guess. I think I would have liked it better if it had been a little more over the top ridiculousness or explored

the, the, the motivations of the villain. Because the village's very gray. Right. Like he is an American military hero and veteran. All those purple Hearts and stuff like that. And his, his motivations are for our. Our just motivations is just means.

Yeah.

His means are questionable.

The best scene in the movie for me probably is when not even the main character, but whoever that Navy SEAL guy who breaks in has that conversation with the captain and they're talking about. It's like, I'm with you. I understand what you're trying to do, but you can't do it. And that hold like debate they're having and there's the tension rising because you know like, they're not gonna. Neither of them are gonna stand down. Main characters aren't involved in this at all. But it's like, why not make them one of the main characters, like a Navy SEAL or something like that. To, like, put him in there to have a personal connection to what the villain's trying to do.

He eventually just gets killed really quick as well. And so, like, it's not even like. It's like his other guys are still trying to, like, complete the mission even though he's already been killed off.

He's killed by his own men.

Yeah.

And like. But doesn't even, like, get involved. He's killed off before. He can even, like, maybe, like, try and help Nick Cage. And we tell some.

Where the other missiles at.

Yeah. But he doesn't, like, get involved, like, trying to. To get there and like, you know, maybe like, you know, he had shot along the way or something like that. It's. He's killed automatically right there and. And just kind of, you know, fades away really quick and it's. Whatever. The other guy you said was from.

Oh, Boss.

Yeah. Boggs and the other guy are kind of chasing after and running all over the place.

Yeah.

And I. I think it would have been good, like, if you actually saw him maybe, like, helping them get to that thing. And I just play like, it's over in the lighthouse.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't. This is one of those movies. It exists.

It's one of those great movies that's out there.

Just. I don't know. These, like.

It's in the top 10 of Nick Cage movies. When you. When you do the filter from top to best.

And that's great. And these. These just. It's just a Jada movie that is there. I know a lot of people love it. It just does not. It just does not click with me. Michael Bay movies, Jerry Bruckheimer Productions, they're. I just. I just don't enjoy them. And this one, I. I know it. It's probably like the birth of the Tropes, but there were so many of those, like, weird camera cuts.

Yes. The camera stuff's annoying.

The scoring in this movie. Oh, really?

Talk about the music. The music is so bad.

Is. The music is terrible.

It sounds like. And it's by him, Hans Zimmer, but it sounds like prototype Pirates of the Caribbean.

Yeah. It's just. It's. It. It's overly. There is not a moment of silence in this movie at all. So it. It's scored from. From minute zero to minute 136 or whatever it is. It's really long.

Yeah. From Zeus's butthole to Zeus's top of his head.

Yes. From. From tip to taint. It is.

It is.

From Zeus's tip to taste his Tate.

Did I mention I. I love this movie? It's a really good movie. I enjoyed it a lot.

I'm glad you do. Like, it's just one of those. I. I just. I don't dig these. These movies. Well, we know what we thought. What did the Internet have to say on February 21st of 2023 new men Newman or sniper hyphen 66396 had this to say. What the N U M E N or sniper hyphen 66396 peak 90s. The rock is a movie that truly can be called a real movie. Capital R, capital M as what movies are really made for.

Wow.

I grew up watching it in the 90s and 2000s. Was obsessed with it. Still know every scene. It's Nick Cage's best movie. Followed by Con Air and Face off. Of course.

Of course.

And one of Sean Connery's best. The rest of the cast and their acting is stellar. Especially Ed Harris and Michael Bean. Is that. Is that how you pronounce B I, E H N? Is Bean okay?

He's an interim.

Yeah. I've heard. And that legendary shower room standoff. The opening of the movie never ceases to give me chills. It's pure brilliance. I'd even go. So I'd even go as far to say that the Rock is in the top five action movies ever. Possibly even number one.

Wow.

It sits in the same G dot O dot A T. No doubt at the end of that category as Lord of the Rings for me.

That's funny.

Oh. Newman or Sniper. I never get tired of it. There's so many great moments and dialogues and each time I watch it, my heart aches to be back in the 90s, early 2000s, when life was just better. 10. 10 must watch for everyone multiple times. 6 found it helpful. 5, not so much. 10 out of 10.

Look, I. I did really enjoy watching this movie. I. I don't see how people come up with these type of ratings and explanations. I don't. It's not anywhere close to that.

There's nothing to compare Lord of the Rings to this.

No. And. But I mean, this is just. It's some. It's a. Was a fun summer action movie. It's not a. Wasn't anything like that should be. It's not something that should ever actually be considered 10 out of 10. Like there should actually be a limit. It's like it's an 8 out of 10 is the highest this movie should possibly be able to go by anybody's stretch of the imagination.

Taste is subjective and if it's somebody's 10 out of 10, I mean, that 10 out of 10 review made me believe that this dude loves this movie.

Yeah, I believe that he's all in on this thing.

Is is all about the rock and to him it's a 10. Not to be outdone, on June 25th of 2004, other Rick had this to say.

Oh, not Other Rick.

Yes.

What about just Rick? Can we get his thoughts first?

Rick was taken, so he had to go with other Rick.

And it's spelled R I C as well. One of the worst movies ever. I love to bring up this movie in casual conversation. Someone says that was a pretty good movie. But after I point out two or three things, I usually admit that it not a good movie in any way. The plot has holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through. Soldiers who died in a declared war had their desks covered up. Why? Everyone in the world knew here they were and what they were doing. A man is kept in prison for 30 years with no charges and no convictions and no one notices. A dozen men can steal a dozen weapons of mass destruction, including missiles in 10 minutes with dart guns. SEALs can't figure out how to open a locked door. You get the idea. I can't get through three minutes of this movie without shaking my head in disgust.

Well, obviously, if you got to the point of. If you got to that point where you're talking about how they seals couldn't open the door. You did get through more than three minutes this movie.

Three minutes without shaking your head in. Disgusting.

That's a little. That's a lot, right? But he's one of those people, like somebody says, I like a movie. Well, let me tell you why you should.

Oh God, yeah. You bring up something you like and then it's all of a sudden a

critique fest and you're like, actually the Rock. Yeah, whatever.

Actually, Lord of the Rings is quite unrealistic.

Yes, exactly. Other Rick. Well, 11 found his review helpful. 27, not so much. One out of ten.

I believe he hates it. I do believe it.

Yeah. I believe he doesn't like it at all. And I'm sure his reasons are justified. Is it a one out of ten movie? No, no, but I mean it's not a ten, that's for sure.

It's Definitely the middle of that, I think.

Yeah, it's. It's somewhere on the lower half. Between three and four.

Between three and one.

I'm not gonna go with that.

Three and four.

Oh, boy. We did it. We got through the first three weeks of Nick Cage month, and you guys, it. It like, he's fine in specific things. Like, I liked. I liked him and stuff. It's just the movies we chose just are not my jams, that's all.

Yep.

It's okay. But you know what that means, boyos?

What's that mean?

It's goddamn wheel time.

Oh, my God, it is.

I'm a wheel watcher.

All right, well, like I said, it's a goddamn Wheel time. And so what each of us did was we picked a movie that was tangentially mentioned over the last three weeks, and we put it on our Wheel of Death. Keith, what did you add to the wheel?

Well, thanks, Sean. Kyrie. Being in this movie that we watched today, I'm. I'm able to tempt the fates again by bringing up Time Bandits for, I think, the third time. Plus. Plus, I picked it for the wheel month last year, too, I think. Maybe. So four times it's been available.

So it was. You put it on the wheel twice last year, which put it on the month 13 wheel twice as well, and that got spun four times and never landed on Time Bandits.

Yeah.

So Time bandits has had seven times a charm.

Seven times.

10 opportunities. 10 opportunities. Because four times two is eight, plus the other two spins. So there were 10. 10 times that time banners could have come up, and it has not. So Time Bandits again, I chose Drive Angry, which Terry piqued my interest with in week one.

Yes. I'm so happy you picked that.

And Terry, what did you choose?

I'm picking Ghost Rider, spirit of Vengeance, aka Ghost Rider 2.

Ghost Rider 2. All right, well, when one of you guys says. Because people have. People have commented that I control the wheel, so I'm not going to spin it till somebody else says for me to spin it.

Spin it. Yeah.

Now, Terry is the only one with the power of the veto.

Delighted. On Time Bandits. I'm gonna veto you. Come on. I gotta watch either. Go try to drive angry.

So Terry vetoes. I'm gonna refresh the wheel. So we're back to a fresh wheel. Keith, since your pick got vetoed, tell me when to spin.

Spin.

There it goes. And we get Ghost Rider 2.

Spirit of Vengeance.

Spirit of Vengeance. Now, since this is a vetoed pick and we've had many vetoed Movies. I just want to remind Keith that the vetoing of the Wheel was a Keith idea last year.

It's true. I would. I would never suggested it. But you did and I agreed with it. Now look what happened.

You know what? And I. It's not. This isn't the way that I intended it to be.

I think it's not what you intended.

No, I think my original. My orig. My original intent. My original intent was to veto the movies that gets put onto the Wheel, then let the Wheel spin how it wants to. To do. This is. But this has brought up plenty of great moments for us during. During DTF ytube.

I. I just assumed it was there to stop my reign of terror of Wheel spins wins.

Yeah, I thought that. And I'm honest.

No, it was more there to make sure, like Xander Cage didn't end up on there again. Zardas or Zardoz ended up on there again.

Or. Yeah.

Things like, you know. Yes. Well, either way, Keith.

Keith brought up the idea of vetoing the Wheel and that's.

It's been fun.

It's been fun. It's actually given us a lot of drama and we've enjoyed it.

This is what's gotten us here. This is the first. This is our first cycle where we've all used our vetoes.

Yeah.

So they're all back again. I can't wait till very first time. I can.

They're refreshed. Refreshed for the next.

So I'm veto your first pick, Terry. So think wisely next month already.

Okay. I better pick a real stinker.

All right, boys, we did it. We got through the rock. We got through three weeks of Nick Cage movies. We got a fourth Nick Cage movie on the horizon, which is Ghost Rider 2, Spirit of Vengeance.

And it's fitting, Keith. It's fitting. It's another Nick Cage film.

Yes.

Spirit of Veggies.

But that puts. Is that like a. What's our streak at now of like the. Or maybe it's not full streak, but it's another one of the ones where we've watched. Like the Wild Card has also been themed.

Well, if you consider Napoleon Dynamite a rom com, which I do. Then last. Last cycle or last month and then Bond month was there. And then what was the other one? I feel like there was another one in there.

Ndaf.

Is that ndaf? Yes, because we watched.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.

Relaxer as well. Yeah.

Yeah.

So we've done this. We've done this a couple times in A row now. So I. It works out nice childhood ruined.

Kind of. For me at least. Oh yeah.

War of the Worlds.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's almost been every. The Shaw Bros was the only one that wasn't. But it was a Hong Kong movie

with the killer, so engineer related. I think there's like a shot Bros producer or something.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe we're. We're down to Fumble in a new way.

Yes. I like it.

Thematic fumbling. Themed fumbling.

Fumbling with purpose.

Purposeful fumbling. That's a. That's a thought. All right. Well, we did. We're on next week. We're on. We're finished up. Nick cage with Ghost Rider 2, Spirit of Vengeance and Terry vetoed in the Spirit of Vengeance.

I did.

I hope the spirit of Vengeance doesn't come back to haunt me. That's for sure.

I just. I. I think it's remarkable that Keith's time bait has finally hit.

If it hit any other month, Keith, I would have let him slide. This month I had to watch either Drive Angry or Spirit of Vengeance.

This month was just too important.

Yeah, right.

Really important to me, I guess. You know, we're here, so that leaves us with nothing to do but to end this the way we end everything.

How's that? Oh, wow. This has strong Michael Bay vibes.

Yeah, it does.

This amusing view is not really matched to transform. The vibe of the video. And the music is not really connected.

No. To hell and back.

I would do anything for love. I'll never lie to you and that's a fact.

But I'll never forget the way you feel right now.

A vampire? No.

Yeah. I don't know what's going.

Wait, did the motorcycle guy go into the crypt in this. This guy waiting for him in there?

Yeah, I think so. Thanks for listening to Fumbling Through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email us at Fumbling Through Film Gmail. You can see our films to Fumble before you tumble into the grave and other musings on Letterboxd at Fumble Through Film. The through is T. HRU. You can also follow Keith on Instagram at kg33lives and on Letterboxd3030. Terry is on Letterboxdary2099. Derek is on Letterboxd at Derek the number nine and then the word nine. All original music is done by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. So hit him up for them bangers. Our new podcast logo is done by the delightful and talented Sanjay Vicky Nayak. You can find her on Instagram at Einstein. That's Einstein with a K in there. We'll see you next week. As we keep on fumbling.