Oops! All Wildcards: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000)

Gather together from the cosmic reaches of the universe. Here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled. Keith.

Well, I, I, I eat the horse. My horse eats the other horse's soul.

That's how it works.

Terry. No, Businessman does not kill— go into a pit and kill 1,000 cats barehanded.

Derek. Keith's not making my editing easy. It's a Christmas miracle if we get through this. And the power twins, Zap and Jordan, with their magical lemur snort dedicated to fumbling their way through movies one forgotten gem at a time. This week we watch the 2000 wire-fu epic, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. This is Fumbling Through Film. Hello, ho ho, and welcome to another one of a kind.

Is that hinting at something?

Maybe brand new episode of Public Through Film, the only show that dares to bring together three wise men to talk about movies.

That's true.

Not just any movies though. Nope. They are the ones we missed, overlooked, or feel are simply worth revisiting. If you're opening that package up, you're like, hey, these are indie movies. Thanks. Just what I wanted. My name is Derek.

Wow.

And I am a fumbler. Joining me here around the, the decorated tree in our Fumble Dome, our reclaimed planetarium we got at police auction. It's the world's prime minister of fumbling and film, Keith.

Hey, what's up, KG? Fumbler extraordinaire. And, um, yeah, there's no hole in my washtub.

There's no hole in your washtub? Congratulations, that's, that's good. Unfortunately, that one that does have a hole in his washtub is Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry.

All I want for Christmas is a new washtub. That's all I want. I've been trying to—

I thought you wanted a hippopotamus.

Uh, I did until, uh, until the washtub incident.

Until my hippopotamus ruined his washtub.

Yes, that hippopotamus took a big old chunk out of my washtub, and now I haven't been able to wash in weeks, which explains a lot about my, uh, you know, smell and other things.

But, uh, this, uh, the, the washtub is the one of the key linchpins in the classic Christmas movie Emmett Otter's Jug-Bang Christmas.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't know what that means.

You do know what I'm talking about, Derek. You deny it, but you know what I'm talking about.

I wish I had any context for what you could be talking about.

I, I don't know what that is.

Classic Christmas movie called Emmett Otter's Jug Band Christmas. And, uh, it revolves around a kid having to put a hole in the washtub to make the jug, uh, the washtub base for his jug band.

Oh, it turns into a base. Hmm. I wish I would have thought that. I just threw it out in the garbage.

Yeah. Damn it, Terry.

What a waste. What a waste.

Oh, such a waste.

In this time of giving, I'm throwing away washtubs.

Throwing away washtubs.

Yelling at hippopotamuses.

Yelling at hippopotamuses.

You're just joyful of me.

Yeah, Terry, you are. You are our resident Grinch.

Bah humbug, I say.

Terry's heart shrinks 3 times.

Yeah, during this part of the year, every time I see that hippopotamus, my heart shrinks 3 sizes.

I, I understand.

About 2 centimeters large right now.

2 centimeters? That's not even 1 inch. Oh my goodness, Terry, I keep looking at the hippopotamus. Well, you know what we need to keep looking at? Forward and ahead because we have another episode to record.

Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah.

We're not quite done yet.

Yeah. Terry almost teed me up for the perfect segue with the waste and I just didn't get it out fast enough.

You know what else? I got waste of this podcast.

Wow.

We can just cut out everything else I said.

We gotta let people know what it is we do here at this joyous time of year.

Yes, yes.

We watch movies, but not just any movies.

Or really any time of year.

I mean, it's already time of year.

It's a joyous time of year for us all the time.

Yeah, pretty much.

Except for that Tubi incident.

Well, that was still— it was its own type of joyous.

Yeah, it was a joy of discovery and mystery.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, okay. There you go. All right. You know what? New Year's coming up. I need to start looking. I need resolutions. Look positive on things.

New Year, new Keith.

Watch more Tubi movies.

No, no, I didn't say that.

Oh, that is a resolution we can all get behind.

Yeah, maybe some might not have a choice in that, if I have anything to say.

Derek's phone notifications might tell him the same thing.

Oh, my Tubi won't leave me alone.

Yeah, Tubi loves your phone.

They do. Anyway, what we do is every month we get together, uh, one of us chooses a theme, a genre, a star in the sky, a pitter-patter of feet on the rooftop, whatever it is.

Oh, the Star of Bethlehem, or what's that thing called?

Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Like the God star?

The God star. One of us chooses a God star, and we each choose movies that adhere to that God star for the month. And then on the 4th week, we spin a wheel with We each put a movie on this wheel, we spin the wheel, and then we watch whatever movie the wheel gives us. Well, that after 12 months left us with 24 sad little misfit movies.

Oh, that's true.

The Island of Misfit Movies.

The Island of Misfit Movies. And we said we need to give them a home. So this month we put those movies onto the wheel, we've spun the wheel, The fight to the death. What's that?

The fight to the death to see who wins. Yes.

We rolled one pool cue, threw that in there and said, whatever comes out, that's what we'll watch. So the first week we watched Romancing the Stone.

Yep.

The second week we watched Superman from 2025. And now this is our third week of wheel watching. And it gave us Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which was a Keith pick that came from the month where we watched movies with, uh, actors in dual roles.

Yeah.

Because Ang Lee directed that Will Smith movie.

Gemini Man.

Yeah, that's right.

Gemini Man. And it's because of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, he was able to have the clout to make Gemini Man. Yeah.

Everything led up to that.

Yeah, pretty much.

Now, before we talk about our viewing of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, before we deep dive, we get closer to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon than we can imagine. Do we have any personal history with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

Uh, outside of seeing it probably in its original run in theaters. That's, uh, I mean, I've probably seen it since then, but I do know I saw it when it came to theaters.

Yeah, I saw it in the theaters too. I didn't realize it was 25 years old, but it is.

Wow.

Yeah, I had never seen this before.

Really?

Yep, never. But I'd heard of it. I'd heard of it many times. Um, I'm surprised I never watched it. I was a big— I'm a big martial arts movie guy. I like those a lot. But yeah, never watched this one for some reason.

Yeah, I think I rewatched this movie about 2020. If this feels like, uh—

I rewatch this movie about every 25 years.

Yeah, it just— once, once a quarter century I watch it.

It's your tradition.

It is, it's tradition. It's like Halley's Comet of movies, but, you know, comes around once every 25 years.

Yeah, it's really beautiful.

But I think when I watched it in 2020, it was one of those, you know, boy, I did a lot of drinking in 2020 and watching TV. Uh, and I don't— I watched it and I'm sure I enjoyed it. I don't remember watching it though, to be honest, because a lot of it felt really new even though I'd seen it before.

Yeah, well, that's kind of me. That's a good thing. Nice view on it.

Yeah, I mean, it in retrospect, it's a bad thing. I probably shouldn't have drank as much as I did that year.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. But look, it's also given you a boon of watching a movie again with fresh eyes.

That's true.

It was all worth it for this.

Yeah, I agree. I was. I had the foresight in 2020 to know that in 2025. I was going to watch it again and I would want to really enjoy it then.

So, mm-hmm.

There you go. All right. Well, now that we've, we've talked about our history of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Keith, Keith is going to do something that we've never done before. He's going to take us closer than we can imagine to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Now we've, we've done deep dives on other movies, just never this one movie. That's true. Keith.

I think that's what makes it patent pending every time.

It's because it's always a new movie. The patent refreshes.

Like, yeah, the lawyers are like, god dang it, just review the same movie over and over again. Over and over again.

But every, every time we do it, we gotta like resubmit the patent, I think. Yeah.

Maybe we should broaden the patent to like kind of just be a more general, more general movie deep dive.

The patent doesn't say, the patent doesn't say any movie.

Uh, that's true. That's true.

Or they're just confused at the whole any movie, but not really any movie. that type of—

yeah, there's a lot of like footnotes at the bottom explaining in this whole any movie, not any movie thing, and it's just kind of confusing. You need a couple lawyers to read it over.

Yeah, and it's always lawyers that need to do it.

And we were on a budget, so—

Yes, we're on that podcast budget.

Yeah, yeah. So that means I'm going to law school. I'm just sitting in on classes for free. I'm not paying for it, but I'm just sending it in.

Yep. Anyway, Keith's gonna take us closer than we could ever imagine to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with another pending Fubblers Deep Dive.

All right, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. A young Chinese warrior steals a sword from a famed swordsman, then escapes into a world of romantic adventure with a mysterious man in the frontier of the nation. Don't think that's the best description of it. It kind of covers off on everything, but I, it's, it's kind of jumbled there, I think, a little bit. But this movie came out, limited release was December 10th, 2000, which made it a, uh, Gen Z Sagittarius in the Year of the Dragon. But then it expanded more wide release, uh, when it came out, uh, more on January 12th, uh, 2001, thus changing to a Gen Z Capricorn in the Year of the Dragon. It is PG-13. It is about 2 hours long. It had a budget of only $17 million.

Nice.

Very low budget there, man.

They, they were very economic in what they did because they did a nice job with that $17 mil.

They did, they did. Uh, no CGI, probably saved them a lot of money.

Yeah.

Uh, opening weekend it made $663,000. Eventually it would roll to $128 million domestic, $214 million worldwide. And damn it if I didn't forget to write down what that would be adjusted for inflation, but it's a lot of money.

Yeah, they made it. Made it. It did. I remember when this came out, it did really well.

Yes, it, uh, it had very, a very long run in theaters. It eventually, it peaked at number 4, um, like about 10 weeks into its run. was the highest it got, but it, it stuck around for a long, long time.

Mhm.

Yeah. Uh, this film is included among the 1,001 movies you must see before you die, as edited by Steven Schneider.

Hell yeah.

Yeah, good old SS. It was nominated— Steven Schneider.

Okay.

Uh, it was at the time, uh, or up until recently, it, uh, was tied for the record Um, for most Academy Award nominations. It had 10.

That's pretty good. That's a lot.

Wow.

One that came out just last year that was on Netflix and it got into a bunch of controversy, uh, Emily something or Amelia something something. Anyway, that, that got— ended up breaking that record. It did win 4 of those Oscars it was nominated for, including Best Foreign Language Film. Best cinematography, best art direction, and a guy named Dun Tan spent only two weeks composing and recording the original musical score for which he then won the Oscar.

Yeah, this two weeks. The music in this movie is dope.

Yes.

Yeah.

All right.

This was written by a couple people. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh ku ko jun sai.

Okay.

Uh. Outside of this, the only thing that really kind of stuck out to me that they, uh, wrote or participated in writing was, uh, Calamity of Snakes. Sounds scary.

I've heard the sound of that.

Yeah.

After a businessman kills thousands of snakes in a pit where they're building a new apartment building. Hold on. After a businessman kills thousands of snakes in a pit, they're building a new apartment building. The residents of the building are then attacked by thousands of snakes as vengeance.

Oh yes, that's awesome.

That does sound awesome.

I love that idea. A businessman kills thousands of snakes and then there's thousands of snakes.

With his hands?

It doesn't say. One by one?

Yeah, but then the residents who then live in there are then attacked as vengeance.

I was hoping you were gonna say snake ghosts, but vengeful snakes is even better.

Yeah, you were looking for snake poltergeists, what you were looking for.

Yes.

Sounds like a sequel to The Snake Pit.

Mm-hmm. That we all wished Snake Pit was.

Yeah. This is the movie we thought Snake Pit would be. Calamity of Snakes.

Yes. Yes. A businessman jumps into a pit of snakes and he murders them all barehanded, and then they come back to kill everyone that he ever loved.

That one stood out to me, but it's also the only thing that really—

It stands out to me too. I think it changed the way I live my life because this movie—

Just knowing that exists makes me much happier. I'm adding that to my watch list right now.

Yeah, Calamity of Snakes.

Do we have a, uh, do we have a wheel for these wheel picks?

No, but that would be odd.

All 3 of us might—

all 3 of us pick Calamity of Snakes?

Yes, why wouldn't I?

Why do we keep getting Spin Again? I don't know.

Every month, every month, or we each pick Calamity of Snakes every single time. So there's 24 Calamity of Snakes on the wheel next year.

All right, next up, uh, we have, uh, Hui Ling Wang. Okay, who again, outside of this, not a whole lot that, uh, was very recognizable to me or anything, but, um, they did help write a movie that just came out recently, uh, in 2017 called Legend of the Demon Cat.

Oh, I like the sound of that as well.

Yep.

Uh, when a businessman— what?

No, no, businessman does not kill— go into a pit and kill 1,000 cats barehanded. Suddenly I'm less than— that's disturbing to me now.

I mean, it's probably disturbing to kill snakes.

I shouldn't be so judgmental to snakes. It's equally disturbing for a businessman to jump into a pit and murder thousands of either animal, I think.

But, uh, one second please.

Demon Cat.

All right, I'm not gonna explain what Demon Cat is.

Why? No, you have to.

You can't leave us like that.

All right, hold on.

It's a Christmas miracle if we get through this one.

Oh God.

Okay. All right. When a demon cat appears and breaks the peace of Chang'an City, causing a series of strange events, poet Bai, uh, Letian and monk Kokai join hands to investigate the death of the emperor's concubine by following the trail left by the dead cat or by the cat. Cat's not dead.

It's just—

oh hell yeah. Yes.

Wow.

Yeah, the third person who participated in writing this was James Seamus.

Okay.

And outside of this, he is best known for working with Ang Lee and helping to write The Ice Storm.

Okay.

And also Hulk.

Oh, nice.

Oh, okay. Okay.

Yeah. So he's blame. He's to blame for that one. Yeah.

I like that movie though, to be honest.

I like both.

I think it's. I think it's un. Justly hated.

It gets a hard rap for some reason.

It does.

Probably the gamma poodles.

Maybe.

All right.

All right.

I mentioned, uh, I mentioned this, uh, that, uh, Seamus worked with director Ang Lee, who directed this one. He's a 3-time Oscar nom for Best Picture, or actually for Best Director, I should say. Uh, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Brokeback Mountain and Life of Pi. Uh, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is the only martial arts film to date to be nominated by the Academy Award for Best Picture.

Nice.

Wow.

Uh, Steven Soderbergh beat Ang Lee out with Traffic for director. He was also up for Erin Brockovich that year. Also, he was nominated twice. Yeah, he was double nominated that year.

That guy's crazy. He works too much. He works way too much.

And, uh, Best Picture went to Gladiator, which I'm okay, that's fair. But the directing thing seems a little—

You've never seen Gladiator, Terry?

Nope.

That's a— it's a good movie.

I haven't seen the first one or the second one.

I don't know about the second one. The first one was good. First one—

Second one, second one you could pass on.

First one was like a really good DVD to own with surround sound.

Oh, okay. Audio is really nice.

Yeah, it's top-notch. And I don't know if it's the first movie to have shaky cam in it. But it had like a very shaky, visceral camera during like these intense battle scenes. It was really cool. Ridley Scott did a very nice job with that movie. You have to believe that Russell Crowe is a Spaniard though.

He's a Spaniard?

Yes, he is.

Really? In that movie?

Yes.

Okay, well, just like, um, oh, what's his face, uh, Sean Connery. He's a Spaniard.

And, uh, yes, Russell Crowe is more believable as Spaniard than Sean Connery is. But he's still a Spaniard.

Okay. Yeah. Why he does a great job being a Spaniard because he I believe he won the best actor that year for that.

Yeah, it's a really good movie. Yeah.

Now a few years later with Brokeback Mountain, Ang Lee became the first Asian to win the Academy Award for Best Director.

Oh yes.

Yeah.

One of the things I do like about Ang Lee, I haven't seen every single one of his movies, but I do like the fact that like the guy has got. a very eclectic group of movies.

Yes.

He was up for— he had a part of a Best Picture nom and then an adapted screenplay-winning version of Jane Austen's Sense and Sensibility that he directed. Also Brokeback Mountain, very different from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Life of Pi is different from both of those. Then you also have The Hulk, Ice Storm, and the previously mentioned Gemini Man. Like he's got a just a ton of stuff in there, and and nothing is this. It's like he refuses to do the same type of movie twice.

It is kind of like that.

Yeah, yeah. He's never pigeonholed himself into a certain genre or style. You know, he likes to do a little bit of everything, which is kind of cool.

Yep. Yeah. So I really really like this. In fact, he pitched this film to Michelle Yeoh as Sense and Sensibility with martial arts.

Huh.

No problem. Now, Jet Li bowed out of starring in this film to fulfill a promise he made to his wife that he would be with her during the pregnancy of their first child.

Hmm.

Uh, I guess that makes sense.

Oh, yep. And thus that allowed, uh, for Chow Yun-fat to come in and play Li Mu Bai.

I couldn't even imagine Jet Li being in that role. Neither could I, but I imagine he could probably do just fine.

He'd probably be awesome.

Yeah, yeah.

I like Chow Yun-fat too, though. I like it a lot.

Yes.

Uh, I like Chow Yun-fat a lot. He is best known, uh, for collaborations with John Woo, such as, uh, A Better Tomorrow, Better Tomorrow 2, Better Tomorrow 3, Once a Thief, Hard Boiled, and, um, one that I really like a lot from 1989, The Killer. This illusion assassin accepts one last hit in hopes of using his earnings to restore the vision of a singer he accidentally blinded. And Derek, I think you and I are both familiar with this because of the fact that Raekwon the Chef sampled the hell out of this one on his.

Yep. I've seen it, but it's been a very long time, and I could. I you tell me that that synopsis of the plot, I would have never guessed that that was the killer.

There's some doves that fly around.

I do know that.

Yep. Double pistols.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's my favorite, Jay. John Woo movie.

They say Jay Woo.

Jay Foo.

I call him Jay Woo.

I call him Jay Da Woo.

Uh, he just did that remake of it like earlier.

He remade it?

Yeah, with like a girl as the assassin and stuff. It was— it's not— I couldn't make it to the end of it.

What's it called?

John Woo's The Killer again.

Oh really?

It's like on Peacock or something like that.

Yeah, I— he did that one movie recently. I watched it and it was not good. What was it called? It was a Christmas movie, I think.

What was it? John Woo's Christmas?

Silent— I think it was called Silent Night.

Oh, the one with, um, the guy who played Rick Flag in—

yes.

Yeah, yeah, I forget what his name is.

Yeah, uh, Joel Kinnaman.

Yeah, yep, that's it.

Yeah, I watched that because I was like, you know what, John Woo, I like your stuff sometimes, let's check it out.

And I watched it, I was like, oh man, I like this one so much.

I didn't like this one so much.

Yep. Uh, this is Chow Yun-fat's first martial arts film.

Wow.

Yep. And before he would, uh, agree to shave off his hair, they had to make a computer mock-up of what it would look like.

Oh, like prove what he will look like.

I bet you that's a tough sell. Yeah, we want to shave off the front half of the top of your head.

Yeah, yeah, it's a very particular look that he has.

It is.

Yeah, mine's doing that on its own and I'm not cool with it.

We need to get you in a martial arts film, Keith.

Keith's first— they had to do a computer mock-up of his head, uh, to get him to do it though.

Yeah, to make sure that my, that my hair was okay with it.

I mean, yeah, they didn't do like a simulation.

Uh, this movie also stars Michelle Yeoh. I, I think I'm pronouncing that last name right, correct?

I think so.

Yep. Uh, she is best known for movies such as Supercop 1 and 2 alongside Jackie Chan. She's in James Bond's Tomorrow Never Dies, Memoirs of a Geisha. She replies her role from this movie of Yu Sheng Ling to be in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny, which came out on Netflix a handful of years ago.

There's a second one?

Yeah, I did not actually watch that one.

I had no idea there was such a thing.

Yeah.

She was in the Shang-Chi movie from Marvel. Both of the Wicked movies, uh, but, uh, I think in most recent times she really kind of stuck out for winning Best Actress in Everything Everywhere All at Once.

Yes, that's a great movie.

Very cool movie.

Yes, like that one. A lot of, uh, multiverse time travel-y type stuff and a lot of great, uh, action. Very similar to, to this movie.

A movie that was not afraid to embrace the weird of what it was trying to be.

Exactly.

Which things like that always endear themselves to me. If you're willing to just say, yep, this is what we're doing and do it, I'm all for it.

Get weird with it.

Go all in.

Go all in.

Yep. Just like this podcast.

Yeah. Yep.

Now, she deliberately did not work for a year before filming began so that she could concentrate on training and also learning Mandarin.

Oh, yeah.

She did tear her ACL. During the shooting of early fighting sequences and had to be flown to the United States for knee surgery, and she would return to the set at different times to film non-action scenes until her knee had recovered.

Holy crap. Yeah. So there's a few things there. She did not know Mandarin prior to this?

Yes.

Wow.

And so even like Chow Yun-Fat did, but his little different version, I guess, of Mandarin based on like where he's from and stuff like that. So eventually they did actually do like a, I think like a full redub of this all in Mandarin with that went over better with audiences, uh, in, uh, in Asian countries because each one of the different, like, uh, a couple different main characters all has a different, uh, accent and stuff like that.

Like regional accent.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Or they're like learning You know, or, you know, if they're not fully, you know, if it's not like their normal language anyway, that some of the stuff probably sounds a little bit different. They, so they did have to redo that a couple different times. Taiwanese-born, uh, Hong Kong actress Shu Qi, would that be Q-I? Would that be pronounced Qi? Qi?

Yeah, I think so.

Was originally cast, uh, in the role of Jen or Jie Long Yu, uh, and worked on the film for several weeks until her agent pulled her from the movie to do a Pepsi commercial in Japan. Oh, she since has changed agents.

That she got pulled from a movie to go do a commercial for Pepsi.

Yeah.

What?

Mm-hmm. So instead, that role then went to Ziya Zhang, and she is also in House of Flying Daggers, which is a romantic police captain breaks a beautiful member of rebel group out of prison to help her rejoin her fellows, but things are not what they seem. Uh, she was also in Memoirs of a Geisha as well. Uh, the actual green Destiny sword and other weapons were all made in Taiwan. In fact, the swordsmith was a neighbor of Ang Lee.

Oh, cool.

Yep.

Uh, the first draft of the screenplay said, you will note in the script that none of the fight scenes are described. I will just inform you now that they will be the greatest fight scenes ever in the history of cinema. Period.

Awesome.

Yeah, I do wonder how that happens. It's like screenwriting, it's like an insert fight scene here, you know? Like, because like, I don't know how to choreograph a fight scene. Like, I would just be like, all right, well, do you hire somebody to do that for you? And like, I don't know, that'd be tough. I like— there'd be like important bits I'm sure you'd include in there, but like—

Yeah, you probably want like the beats or whatever. Like, this happens and then the gun slides away, and then they, they reach for the gun and they can't get it, and it's kicked even further away. And then somebody kicks the gun back to him. Those sorts of things.

He goes down a slide and flies even further away.

Yeah.

As opposed to, uh, she tries to fly away, other lady steps on her foot.

Oh God, that's so awesome when that happens.

Yeah.

Get back here.

Last little, the last little part that I will add into this is that this film is actually an adaptation of the 4th novel, uh, in a pentalogy.

Okay.

Really interesting.

Which is also a 5-novel cycle. Known in China as the Crane Iron Pentology, uh, it was written by a kung fu novelist, Du Luwang. The novels are Crane Frightens Kunlun, Precious Sword, Golden Hairpin, Sword's Force, Pearl's Shine, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and then Iron Knight, Silver Vase. And in fact, much of the story is not about Li Mu Bai. And Yu Shulin, they're actually secondary characters who only become important later in the series. And you know, so it's a because they seem to be. I mean, I guess they're not the exact main main character in this. It's the the one girl I think kind of comes across. But they are. It sounds like in this movie they're much bigger than they would be normally throughout the rest of the novels.

Interesting.

I had no idea. That's that's kind of cool. Oh, very close.

That was really close.

Very close.

Very close.

So close that we learned that there was different— there was an actor that went to do a Pepsi commercial instead of finishing this movie, which is so bizarre to me.

That's like such a strange— like, why? What agent would do that?

Unless the Pepsi commercial just paid a shit ton.

Yeah, maybe it did. That's true.

But even then, like, I'm making a movie here, y'all.

Oh, hopefully they got a really good commission off it too, because, uh, they got fired right after that, so. Yeah, or shortly after that once this thing went huge. Very huge.

It could have launched that person's career. But I do like the Zhi Zhang or whatever her name is. She was really cool in this movie.

She's 21 years old when it comes out, so she's like 20. Wow.

Yeah, 1920 when she's making it. Yeah, yeah, she looks super young.

So probably should talk about the rest of the movie then, right?

Yeah, we should.

I mean, we could just be done.

I mean, we already talked about the music, but I want to reiterate That the music in this movie is just top tier.

What about foley work?

Foley work was there too. Yeah, I mean, our opening clip was all nothing but foley work that we all did ourselves.

We just, we recreated it.

Oh yeah, like audio play, like back in the '20s. There's jingling metal around.

Yeah, I got, I got 2 swords here that I just keep just rubbing against one another.

Oh God.

Yeah, I had 2 coconuts ready in case we did a horse scene because I can—

A horse scene.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just had like a little like a slide whistle.

But I guess I should have picked the scene where we could have all done something. Yeah, I kind of because there is a scene with the slide whistle, the horse, and the swords.

Yeah. I'll be honest.

There are some spots where like a slide whistle would have been kind of fun in this movie.

Someone's just flying away. Just go like.

Is this the first movie to have wire foo in it?

Uh, I don't know if it is, but it. It's great. They are able to quickly and easily take it out in post because you can't tell at all. Obviously some of it looks weird how they are flying at times, but they're moving so nice and smooth throughout the whole thing.

The first movie to do wire fu was Zu: Warriors from the Magic Mountain in 1983.

Oh wow, that's way—

but The Matrix in '99 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon in 2000 were the first like mainstream—

Oh, The Matrix.

Yeah, that's true.

I do remember when I saw this the first time that I was blown away by the wirefoot. I love watching them like float run across rooftops.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I just think it's really cool. And then when they get up into the trees at the end That's just dope. I don't know, fighting in treetops is just really cool.

Like, I like in the, like, the first kind of fight scene that we get where there's like at one point where she like grabs just a small piece of a rock from off the wall and chucks it at the, at the other, at the other girl because she knows it's going to throw her off from that. Like, yep, you know, they're in that perfect like state of floating along, but if you get hit by something, it suddenly throws the whole thing Uh, off.

Yeah, I thought the wirefury was kind of weird. I didn't know if I liked it that much. Oh, it was okay. Yeah, I thought it was—

it just—

I liked it when they're fighting on the ground, but when they start floating around, I, I just felt like they were too, like, floaty, I guess.

Too floaty?

Yeah, yeah, it just felt weird. Like, I don't mind them having, like, weird powers and stuff. Like, I think that's cool. I'm flying around, that's a cool power. But I just— I didn't— and then there's, like, no weight to the movements, and I could— I felt like I could tell they were, like, slipping and sliding on the wall and stuff. I don't know, I just It didn't— it felt a little strange, I guess. I don't know. I didn't think it was horrible, but just— I liked it better when they were just fighting normally, I think.

I think the only part— I think the only part that it bothered me at all was— and I mean, it works nicely in the tree thing, but I think it also was just a little— maybe because of the way that with all the trees around, you just see like Chow Yun-Fat just kind of like falling back into like a bunch of leaves and stuff like that. And then all of a sudden he's, you know, leaning forward again. That threw me off a little bit. But I thought all the stuff that was like in like the little village that they were in, or in the, uh, the governor's— no, it wasn't the governor's man— that other businessman's mansion that the governor was staying at, when they're jumping across all the rooftops and stuff, I thought that was great.

Mm-hmm. Ran up the wall, jumped over rooftops, soared, like just floating over the wall. Like, I don't know, I really dig that. I, I could see Terry's point of it being too floaty, but I don't give a shit.

It's like slow. It's like, it felt like it was like too slow. Like they're just kind of like dramatically floating away. And I don't know, there's like no like weight to it. There's no speed.

Yeah, it was like magical. I liked it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And at least, well, in the first one, because I think the first fight scene is the only one that really also has like an all-out chase with it also. Yeah. And so like, um, Michelle Yeoh's character does run along a little bit faster every now and then. Trying to catch up, uh, trying to catch up with the other girl who, after she steals the, the sword. And so she's, she does move a little bit faster at times, but then, yeah, then it goes back into that, like, they're like long stride gliding thing. Later on when they come down and she, the, they glide across the water as well, uh, is very cool. It is weird to see them like just kind of like out of nowhere, like it's not like They don't try to jump. Like, I think, like, even in, like, you know, so we watched Superman last week, like, when he goes to, like, take off, so he doesn't just, like, float away, like, kind of springs forward. And in this one, they kind of just, they just kind of start to lift away, which is why that the one scene is great where it's like she keeps, like, there's the one girl takes off, Shoyo just kind of steps on her foot. Nope, back here.

Yep.

Nope, stay here. Uh, and does that a couple times. It's very fun to see, but it is like that just very natural, like, slow lift off the ground.

Um, it's like they're being propelled. It means it's like they're just kind of like gravity no longer works and they just float away.

Yeah, it's like they're in space and they get like— they got tilted away a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I dig it.

I don't know, I like that. I— there, there's a lot of good— I really like the fighting scenes in this movie. I like this, the sword fighting. Uh, our opening clip where they're—

Yeah, that's, that's probably the best scene of the whole movie.

Yeah, she's just working her way through all the, through all the, the weapons in the rack. And I don't know what the name of that one weapon is that's too heavy for her to lift.

Oh yeah, that thing is awesome.

That's a very fun little like—

Yeah.

Goes to grab it, it's like—

I was like, oh, I can't swing this thing.

And then she got just like a giant piece of like wood or something for a while that's working.

Oh yeah, whatever that— like, it's like a metal rod that bludgeon is.

Yeah, yeah, it's like a mace, I guess.

What's it called? A cudgel, maybe?

A cudgel, yes.

And there's— I mean, there's just— in addition to like fighting each other, just smash the shit out of everything in that room.

Yep. Yeah, that was my favorite fight scene too. It just was real choreographed, um, seeing them burn through every single weapon.

Yeah, yeah, pretty cool.

But then the— this— what, what was the sword called?

The, the green something? Green— what was it called?

The green— Green Sword of Destiny.

It sounds right. Yeah, it just sliced through everything. I like that.

And it's, and it's super thin because it seems to like waver around a lot when people are using it.

Yeah, it's probably like lots of, lots of layers of folded steel.

So you get the kind of like the first fight scene with, uh, you know, the 2 ladies going at it, and you see like they're kind of like equally going at it. And, um, Sho Yeo's character obviously just a little bit more experienced stuff. But then, like the the first scene that the Chiang Fat comes in, and he's just casual about the whole thing.

Mm-hmm.

You know, in fact, when he's trying to like recruit her to come like train instead, and he's just he's just hitting her with like a stick at one point. Like yeah, pop pop pop back and forth. Like nope, you're doing this. She's trying to get at him, and he's just like back up. Start over.

And even at the end when she says, you can have the sword if you can get it from me in 3 moves, and he takes it in 1.

Yeah, he doesn't even need 3 moves.

Yoink! I'll take that sword, thank you very much. She thinks she's better than she is, sort of thing. Well, she's, she's hot shit. She's young.

She's really good.

Yeah, yeah, she's really good. She's like, she hasn't met anybody that's better, and the moment she does, she's like, oh fuck.

Yeah, and so that's like when the, the, the, you know, the basic like plot line that they put on IMDb about this It's not so much that she steals a sword, it's that her and the— with the Jade Fox, they steal the Book of, you know, Secrets or whatever it is from the—

Wutan.

Yeah, the Wutan Secrets. And she can actually read all the stuff and learns everything and learns how to do all, like, you know, all the great moves and stuff like that on her own and continues to practice them and stuff, you know. In fact, where, like, the person who thinks that they're her, you know, uh, master teacher with the Jade Box. Eventually it's like, oh, wait a minute, no, no, you, you've been lying to me this whole time. You knew more than I did. You've gotten better than me, you know. So it's more about like that they steal that book than anything else, I think. And, and then it— this is just— and I think maybe that's part of the— maybe that's something you find out if you're reading all 5 of the—

yeah, the novels. That's what I thought was interesting about the structure of the movie was it didn't feel like It felt like it jumped focus a lot of different points. Like, not necessarily in a bad way, but like in a different— like, I was just like, whoa, that's not what I was expecting. Like, it feels like the movie's setting up for one thing and then it shifts, and I'm like, oh, now we're doing this, and then it shifts again and now we're doing this. Like, I— in some ways I kind of like that, but in other ways I was kind of like, well, I wish we'd kind of just keep it consistent. But like, yeah, it was interesting to see, like, okay, we gotta watch out for this thief, the Jade Fox, and then it's like, oh, the princess is helping the Jade Fox, obviously, and then— They also— now we're getting like a whole backstory with the princess, and they have this thing, and there's vengeance. Like, at first, I, I don't know, it's like interesting because it doesn't feel like there's actually like really a main character in the movie. Maybe honestly Jin is the main character. I don't know. It's like kind of how they shift perspective almost.

There seems like there's enough there that I didn't need the— all the stuff that was out in the desert. And I— yeah, I didn't like that part, and it's the only part that seems to slow it down a bit. at times, but it feels like there was enough there of like why they're trying to find the Jade Fox, you know, and, and take care and, you know, kill her and also, you know, recruit this girl in because she's a, you know, a prodigy of the stuff and all. And also, um, you know, the, the 2 main characters kind of like their connection as well, all seemed to be enough that you didn't have to really drag in and give like this whole backstory that Like, it's important for the end when she jumps off the cliff, but it's like, it felt like too big of a detour.

Yeah, I was like, what? Okay, like, well, yeah, I wish it would have maybe even just focused on them trying to train her and her being too cocky and all this stuff, like being that kind of the whole movie. But there's a lot more layers to it than that. There's a lot more.

More of her going to like whatever random town she went and just whipping through like all those guys in that one bar. Mm-hmm. Also with that massive amount of food she ordered.

Yes, and from a different restaurant than the one she's actually at.

Yeah, I'm gonna go to a different restaurant. Well, get a move on.

Good. Yeah.

I want that shark fin soup, goddamn it.

Can't go without it.

Yes. So I don't know, it's the, the focus of the movie, because, because there's, there's 3, 3 stories maybe. Because Master Li, Mu Bai, and Yu Shu Lien, right? Like their relationship and the— he wants to give up the sword and blah, blah, blah.

He wants revenge.

Yep. And he has revenge. He wants Jade, but he's given up on the fact that it's never gonna happen. Because he's just like, I just don't know where this person has gone. And it just so happens that giving up the sword brings them together in line with Jin and And the Jade Fox, who has been part of the Yu family, just like kind of worked her way in there.

Yeah, I don't know if she was— if she's like, I don't know, like, uh, maybe she started out as like a nanny or something for the princess and then, and it's just been there for a long time.

They did—

they never really explained how she's there.

Yeah, well, she— yeah, she worked her way in as to be like a nanny or whatever, right? But she— it's almost like a Sith versus Jedi sort of scenario here.

Yes.

Yes.

Jade Fox is the, the Sith Lord and Jen's the apprentice there. And then you got—

But Jen found the Jedi books.

Yeah. Yep, exactly. And then—

And can read them. Uh, because then you also have that with the, the one, the policeman and his daughter.

Yeah.

Who are in there trying to stop her. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess they never come back.

Yeah.

But also you could have put maybe a little bit more into how they were connected to this as opposed to heading out to the flashback scene throughout the desert. I found that eventually the desert stuff did kind of seem to slow things down a bit.

The desert stuff is Jen's motivation, right? She doesn't want to be part of her aristocratic family. She wants to choose who she can love. She wants to be all the things that she can be. But she's held back by either her role or social status, and also the Jade Fox wants her to be that whatever, her apprentice. I don't know.

I thought it went on a little too long.

I think I didn't have a problem with it. The only thing, the only real problem I had with it is there's no like seamless transition into it.

No, it just suddenly happens.

It just happens all of a sudden and you're like, And then you realize, okay, this is a flashback. Cool. Even though she looks the exact same. So you don't know when it happened. Right. Like, cause if she's like 1920, then this would have been a flashback when she was like, what, 14, 15? I don't know. Yeah. Like, did it just happen before they got to where they're at?

She was— yeah, I don't know. That's a good question.

That's a tough one because she's so young. It's hard to tell. Like what the timeline is.

Because she makes it sound, she's like, oh, you've been looking for me this whole time? Like, has it been a long time? Has it been, you know, I—

yeah, it's hard to tell.

It can be super long, but also, you know, it can't be like 5 years prior or anything like that. But also, yeah, I mean, I guess if she's moving around a lot with her, her family and, and all, and finding, you know, her husband and stuff like that, that it maybe take the guy a little while to find her.

Oh yeah, I don't know. It, it does, it does make it Weird, I think, only because she looks identical.

And she's already— and she already seems to know like a lot of the martial arts stuff. Yeah, because I mean, she starts, you know, whipping up a bunch of those guys in the— in the—

oh God.

Yeah, true.

Yep.

So it might not have happened that long ago. Maybe it was only a couple years. She's already been working with the Jade Dragon or Jade Fox for 10 years, I think she said.

Yeah, she's been training her for 10 years. So again, that leads to like, oh, maybe she came on as, as like a, uh, you know, nanny or somebody working in the house, you know, working with the, in the, you know, the family hires. 'Cause she would've been like 8 or 9, something like that.

Yeah. Yep.

I don't know.

It's interesting, but then, yeah, I get it. I don't know. I feel bad for the Lo character too, or what's Dark Cloud or whatever his name is. Yeah.

I mean, he doesn't really have much to do at all in the whole movie besides Exist.

He's, he's just head over heels in love with her, and she kinda is. I don't know if it's reciprocated the same way.

Yeah, she seems to like him, but I don't know as much as he likes her.

But yeah, I mean, she's willing to jump off a bridge at the end. That's true.

And he just stands there and watches.

Yeah, but she still just is like— I think even like in the end, even when like they're like, go there, find him, you know, live the life that you wanted. So she's still like, well, it's still not really my decision then.

The life that she wants is to be on the road whipping ass, I think.

Yeah.

Which, to each their own, right? I guess if I had those sorts of skills, I'd probably want to go on the road whip ass too.

Yeah, I'd be whipping ass all the time.

No kidding. Just go town to town whipping ass.

Every bar I go to, I'm just gonna—

yeah.

Oh, you'd be that guy.

Be like, oh God, it's him again.

Yeah, come back to the same bar.

He beats the shit out of everybody and like faces no consequences.

Go back to the lockpicking convention.

Yeah, he just keeps going to the same bar over and over and over again.

Keep trying to order the shark fin soup. They don't have shark fin soup.

I like that scene when she beats the shit out of everybody.

That's a really good scene. Yeah, yeah.

And at the end, at the end, the, the bar just kind of falls apart.

Yeah, she destroys it. Yeah, yeah, she has her whole monologue announcing her new name, like the Goddess of the Sword or something like that.

And then, and afterwards they're like, we just wanted a friendly challenge, she's so rude.

She wouldn't even acknowledge them.

She's so mean, she beat the crap out of them. They're all like in black eyes and they got, they got, uh, like splints and stuff. I really enjoyed that.

They brought like 20 guys, like, yeah, go beat her up.

They just wanted to go have a friendly spar and she kicked the crap out of everybody.

Yes, yes, yeah. I really like that dynamic of her like training. I felt like, like, because everybody— like, I was like, oh cool, we're gonna see her get trained by the master and like all these other students are jealous or like trying to like compete with this prodigy and all this stuff. Like, this is gonna be interesting and she's gonna have to get humbled at some point, but it doesn't really go in that direction.

She doesn't really get humbled until she finds out that Jade Fox wanted to kill her. Yeah.

Yeah.

She's like, Jesus, I didn't know it was gotten that far.

You're really that mad?

Ooh.

Well, she goes, you know what poison is? Poison is raising a 10-year-old child. It's like, Jesus, fuck.

Well, just lie to me.

Yeah. Yeah. That's true poison.

Maybe I shouldn't have done that.

Also the poison I stuck into your neck with that dirt. That's poison too.

Yeah. I feel like that's more real.

And that wasn't aimed for you. It was aimed for her.

I wanted, I wanted to kill that little kid.

Good. Yeah, I hate that kid.

I think my favorite thing that Jade Fox does is when she's fighting that like security guy and then the cop and his daughter.

Mm-hmm.

She hits the security guy with some like 4-tap move and he's just kind of stuck there paralyzed. Yeah, yeah, that was— yeah.

And then unfortunately that never really comes back though.

No, but I, but I like how like then like, uh, Li Mu Bai walks over and just sees him immediately. Like, you know, he's looking around, looking out for everything else going on, and then he just does like some like reverse, like the reverse step, and the guy's like, oh my God.

Yeah, that, that security guy was such a joke in that fight. He was like in the middle and he— they were just kept getting slapped around and he was being used as a weapon. He's like—

Also, they, they tie him to like off to the side so he can't fully get into the fight right away, and he doesn't know it. They just kind of like sneakily tie him up there. But yeah, he keeps getting like Every time he gets up there, like, one of the two of them, either the cop guy or the, the Jade Fox, like, uses him to defend themselves.

Yeah. Yeah. He's just getting in the way. He's making it harder by jumping in there.

Yeah.

It's like, goddammit, man.

I, I very much enjoyed this. Uh, again, I haven't seen it in probably at least 10 years. Um, but I like very much, uh, The fight scenes in this, um, especially like the very first one and then that the last one between, um, the, the 2 ladies are probably 2 of the best things I think we've probably watched all year. Like individual scenes. Like I, I really, especially the second one is just the 2 of them.

That fight scene in the courtyard where they're jumping from rooftop to rooftop is cool. But then when the Jen character like squats against the wall and does like a M. Bison torpedo spin launch, it's like, yeah, it's awesome. Awesome. I like that.

Yeah, it's so I I just I really like I was watching this when I started watching. I was like, man, this is this one of the best things I've seen in a while. This is great.

I also like too that you the viewer immediately knows who is stealing the sword.

Oh God, yeah, it was not a mystery at all.

And yeah, and so does the Michelle Yeoh character. She knows who stole she.

Yeah, she figures out very quickly.

I know who this is.

Yeah, I'm not the movie.

The movie knows that the movie knows. Who it is, and I appreciate that. It's not like what there's like there's not a crazy reveal later on. She's just like listen, I knew it was you. I was trying to. I didn't want to humiliate you because of your your status, you know. Yep. But just give me the fucking sword.

Yeah, there's no like dramatic like rip off the mask. It's like oh my god. Yeah, it's like obviously is her.

I think I think the Jade Fox. Reveal was more of the dun dun dun, because I didn't recognize her at first. And then it wasn't until after the one scene, and then where she was the Jade Fox and fighting in the court— in the courtyard, and then went back to her, I was like, oh, it was her. I was like, holy shit, I didn't— it didn't put two and two together right away.

And it makes sense why she keeps telling, uh, keep telling her to stay away from, you know, stay away from that one. We don't need that type of— your, your family will look down upon you hanging out with her.

Yeah.

Also, these are like, uh, it's in one of the X-Men movies where like, oh, somebody had— oh, is it? I think it's in Logan where like, doesn't like the girl have like a, a couple of the X-Men comic books or something like that? Because then Logan gets like, yeah, he's like, that's not really how, how it happened and stuff like that. That's almost kind of like what this is because that girl knows who, who—

Oh yeah, from the stories.

And yeah, and, and Michelle Yeoh's character, she knows who they are. Because of like the stories that she's heard and the legendary tales that she's heard all this time. She's like, I want to be like your sister and you can tell me all these stories, etc.

It's not really as interesting as you think it is.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It was cool. I liked it. Yeah, cool fight scenes. Treetop fighting. If you guys don't like— I like the treetop fighting because I really like the moment where he uses the tree against her. Like pulls it down and he jumps off and it like flings her and like she fall— I don't know, the logistics of tree cap fighting.

She's stomping it a bunch trying to get him to— and he's just like, like smiling and like, you know, his feet aren't moving at all and she's trying to knock him off and then all he does is like lift off one quick thing and sends her flying.

It's great. Yeah, this movie, I remember when I saw this movie the first time and the same thing with The Matrix, the Unrealistic movements reminded me of playing as a kid.

Yes.

Like, you got your whatever action figure over on one thing and it jumps like a million feet and does a bunch of flips and lands over here. It sort of reminds me of, and it has that sort of quality that just makes me feel good inside because it reminds me of being a silly kid and it's just I like that. I don't know, fighting on treetops.

I like the fact that it's got a— it's got like a superhero type movie, uh, vibe to it, but without being like a superhero movie. It's got that—

Yeah, yeah, because they're all— they all do superhero-ish sort of things. Totally unrealistic. Yeah, they're powerful.

And I like that. Yeah, they like— at first I was like, is this like, um, is anyone gonna acknowledge this? You know what I mean? I was like, is anybody gonna acknowledge that they're flying around, or is this supposed to be like You know, like in an anime, nobody's like—

it's a common thing.

Yeah. But then someone's like, yeah, then she flew away. And I'm like, oh, okay. Wherever you are acknowledging that this is the kind of a thing.

Start fly away over the governor's, over the governor's house.

Oh, I know.

Everybody looks at him crazy. Like, fly away? What are you talking about?

That's what I was waiting for. I was like, is this a weird thing in this universe or is it just like, oh yeah, she just flew away.

Yeah. They're just like, oh, they flew away. It makes sense. Goddamn it.

I need to learn how to do that.

And not everybody can fly away because they have that chase scene. Everybody's just like running around the ground with the lanterns trying to look on the rooftops.

And you have to read that from that book or something, right? The school is— the school teaches you how to do that.

If you knew Wudang, you could fly around.

That's how Michelle Yeoh's character knows that they— where she trained at is because she can do that stuff.

Yeah.

Or she thought she knew where she trained at.

Yep. Very cool. Do we do it? Do we get through Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

Holy shit, we did fast too.

Wow.

Kind of, kind of rocked and rolled through that. It's a very visual movie. It's a lot of action and it's also in a foreign language. So it's, there's like, the dialogue is like reading the dialogue. I'm like, boy, this is really wooden dialogue. But then I realized I'm like, this is probably literal translation or the closest Like it's probably far more engaging in the, in the, you know, in Mandarin or whatever.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Whatever.

Well, what do we think of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

Well, Terry, you'd never seen it before. What did you think?

Um, I enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty good. I think I didn't quite like the wire-free stuff. I think it's just a little too floaty for my taste. Just doesn't have a lot of impact. Whereas when they're fighting on the ground, I do feel the impact of their hits and their moves and everything. Um, I still like the style of it though. Um, I like the story for the most part. I do think it jumps around a little bit too much. I wish it would have just kind of focused in on one thing maybe. Um, but I like the characters. I think the characters are all interesting. Um, but maybe some are more underutilized than others. But yeah, overall enjoyable. I quite liked it.

I, I agree. Uh, it's, uh, it's been— I have a stack of DVDs that I'm like, oh, I gotta rewatch movies at some point in time. And I— and it sits there and I— it gets put into like a cabinet and then I don't look at it for like a year. And I— when I rearrange everything every now and then, I'll go, oh look, here's the stack I want to look at. It's been on that list, uh, and I'm glad that I got to, uh, check it out again.

Nice.

Very, very good. Very worthy of the wheel.

Yeah, wheel did us good on this one. I like this movie quite a bit. Do enjoy the action sequences. I do like the wire fu. I like the floatiness of it. I don't care I don't care what Terry says. He can shove it.

Hey, hey!

You can take your personal opinion and cram it up your ass.

I'm gonna go into a bar and beat some ass now.

I like it. I I like I like the three main characters in this movie. I like the the rebellious rebellious young doesn't want to do what she's supposed to do quality of Jen. I like the old master. I hate the fact that he dies of poison, but it's the same way his master died, I guess. I don't know. I would have liked to see him be saved at the end, but it's too bad.

I'm kind of surprised that his master was killed by the Jade Fox, you know? Like, I mean, I guess he was too, but it's like, she's not that good. Like, no. She could easily have beat her.

Easily. She's just a poison.

He also wasn't trying to kill her, like, right? Or she wasn't trying to kill him. She was trying to kill the girl, and he just— he took some shrapnel, I think, as he was hitting all of those needles back at her.

Oh, that was a really cool scene. I like that. Yeah. And then she gets hit with the shrapnel of him shredding the sword.

Gets shredded.

That was—

God, that was really cool.

I like that. I could not believe it when the sword shrapnel came flying back and stabbed her. That was so cool.

Yeah, that was pretty sick. I like that. But then he has that one dart, one goddamn dart.

There's one, just one.

All it takes is one.

Mm-hmm.

It wasn't even meant for him. That's the killer.

Oh God. And that— maybe that's how you get him though, you know? You don't aim for him because you know he'll save— he'll try and save it.

Yeah. Well, we know what we thought. What did the internet have to say? Well, on December 6th, 2005, Personman_4 had this to say. Not for right-brainers.

What?

I have read many of the comments posted on this site on the subject of this film and have come to the conclusion that those who express dislike are those who missed the point.

Okay.

Once you have made your mind up about a film, the way you watch the rest is based on that initial decision. A lot of it comes down to the difference between logical right-brainers and more creative left-brainers. Anyone who points out that you can't have a sword fight in a tree needs to remember what it was like before they became middle-aged. If you invest your emotions and suspend your disbelief, you will find this to be the most spiritually fulfilling film you will ever watch.

Wow, really?

12 found it helpful, 10 not so much, 10 out of 10.

Okay, most spiritually fulfilling movie.

That's a bold statement to make.

That's very bold.

Well, not to be outdone, on June 28th, 2001, Tucker-4 had this to say: Does it get any better?

Wow.

Well, the old story about the emperor's suit of clothes springs to mind here. Oh, you must see it. It's glorious, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, I'll play the part of the little boy who noticed that the emperor was naked. This is a terrible film. It's dull, moves slowly. There is no plot whatsoever. Maybe there will be one. I don't know what that means.

What does that mean? Yeah.

I have decided that an hour of it was all I could stand.

Oh God.

And I've switched it off and had decided to do something more rewarding, like doing my laundry. I can't remember the last time I did that with a film. Awful. Save your money. Mind you, I have it for another 20 hours. Should I bother seeing the rest of it? Have I given up just before the story gets interesting and the pace gets a bit quicker? I doubt it, but if someone recommends that it does get better, I'll give it another go. Have a good weekend.

Only within the 20 hours. They can only recommend within 20 hours.

3, found it helpful. 4, not so much. 1 out of 10.

I feel that, I feel that this guy is one of the reviews that the other guy read.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. I, I, I liked his beginning with the Emperor's Clothes analogy. I thought that was funny. But then I was like, oh, he only watched half of the movie. I don't like it anymore. I don't like it.

This is a short one that made me laugh, uh, just the title. September 1st, 2001. Patozan had this to say: What are they fighting for?

That's a good question.

Why do they need horses if they can fly? What are they fighting for if nobody wins? So what they died for? That's the point. Thank God they died so the film could come to an end.

Wow.

For absence of characters. And like those flying idiots, this video could finally fly back to the shelf from where it should have never left. 27 found it helpful. 29, not so much. 1 out of 10.

I love that. Why do they have horses? You just imagine just seeing a bunch of people just flying across the country with no horses.

But they don't like fly. They're like Superman flying. They're slow. Yeah, it's like they're leaping and just gliding through the air.

Yes, just gracefully along.

Horses probably move a lot faster.

I bet I could probably jog faster. Not for long, but I bet I could.

Yeah, probably.

I love that. That's pretty funny. Why are we fighting?

What are they fighting for?

I will say, like There's a— I don't know if it's like every movie, not just like every movie, but there's like, it's just a good 75% of like movies or even like TV series that like, if people would just stop and like explain something to somebody very basic and like explain to them what was going on, they're like, okay, cool. And we'd be done with whatever it is. Why are they fighting? Because it's a movie, goddamn it. And this is what we do.

It's a movie, you idiot.

Yeah, if you just suspend your disbelief for 5 seconds, you'd enjoy the film.

Yeah, yeah, quit acting so grown up. Remember what it was like to be kids?

Right-brainer scum.

Yeah, I forget, I forget what it was. I was watching some— I was watching some with my wife recently. I was just like, as I'm sitting there watching, I'm like, why didn't this person just tell the other person like what's going on like up front, and then we could be done with the problems here? Like, it would be over. Nope, nope, gotta come up with more drama and conflict.

Isn't that life though? Isn't that just life?

Yeah, I guess.

I—

it's, it's very weird, but I, I, I think I've thought about that more than once over like the past year or two. I'm watching something going like, if those 2 people just would like sit down and have a conversation real quick, like, we could be done with this.

Yeah, sure.

Like, granted, does it make for a really good movie or a really good series? No. But like whatever problems that the bigger problems that eventually occurred, like we really didn't need it. Like we, you know, we didn't need horses. We could fly.

No, that would solve a lot of problems.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They just can't. I wish I could fly or had a horse. One of the two. If I had either one, I'd be fine.

Prefer to fly, but yeah. But right now I'm not fine at all. Yeah.

I can't even— and I don't have a horse, so like, yeah.

What am I going to do?

Yeah.

Walk?

No, heavens no, Terry. Oh God, heavens no.

I wish I did have a horse. That'd be cool.

I know. Horses gotta be expensive though, I imagine.

We gotta bring those things back, you know. Nobody rides horses around anymore. I feel like we need to just like— everybody gets a horse, we just ride around.

Yeah, why not? Everybody gets a horse.

You just get— the government's gonna just give everyone one horse and then it's up to you to take care of it. But off we go and you're just running off and You know, save gas money. That would solve the gas crisis.

There'd be so much horse poop all over the place.

Oh. It'd be a whole—

probably a whole cottage— billion-dollar cottage industry based off horse poop then.

Yeah. I don't want to be like this, but horses would get eaten.

What? By what?

By people.

No!

You think?

You think that the government's gonna give you a free horse and they're just gonna eat it?

I, I don't think it's because they want to eat it. I think there's a situation where they have to.

Because they went to McDonald's.

That's all I'm saying. I think it's the state of the world.

Okay, well, what if we make a law you can't eat your horse? Do you think they'll stop?

I don't think— well, if that—

no, that's just you can't eat your horse.

Okay. Oh, I'm gonna go eat somebody else's horse.

Yeah.

Okay, look, I'm gonna— I'll get back to you guys. I'm gonna write up some rules and regulations. We'll get this horse thing.

The horse laws.

Every other horse that me and my horse eat Makes us powerful, more stronger.

Yeah, we're gonna. So your horses eating horses? Eating horses? Hold on.

Why?

I know horses ate meat. Well, I guess so.

I I eat the horse. My horse eats the other horse's soul.

That's how. Oh oh okay. Weird. I don't know how. Okay.

Horses want to get eaten.

Yep. No.

That's a good movie for a title. They shoot horses, don't they? The sequel. Horses will be eaten, won't they?

Yep. Well, if you shot them, might as well eat them.

All right.

Well, I guess that's a good segue because we got something we have to do. We've got one more wheel spin we have to do.

Oh man.

One more.

One more.

One more wheel spin.

It is my turn.

It is, uh, we don't just have to stop Christmas today. It can extend on. Yeah.

So we'll be ringing in the new year with one of these following movies. I'm going to go down the list one more time so people know what we're spinning for. I'm gonna start with the most recent. Okay, we had After Hours, which is Terry pick.

Yep.

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which was a Keith pick. Then we had Talk to Me, which is a Terry pick.

Oh, please, please.

Then we had Sky High, not the Disney one, which was a me pick. Then we had Major Payne, which is a Keith pick. Sniper, which is a Terry pick. Then Godzilla, Mothra, and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All Attack, which is Terry pick.

Come on.

Now the next 2 have been used, so they're not on the wheel anymore. Romancing the Stone and Superman. And then we have The Fast and the Fierce, which is a me pick.

No.

God, please no. Uh, Time Bandits, which is a Keith pick. Chopping Mall, which is a Derek pick. Time Bandits, which is a Keith pick. Logan's Run, which is a Derek pick. And then we just watched Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon today, so that's off the wheel. And then Her, which was a Derek pick. Fever Pitch was a Terry pick. Hot Rod, a Keith pick. Flashdance, a Keith pick. The Swarm, a Terry pick. Do you know there's a TV show called The Swarm?

There is.

I was on— I was trying to find something on HBO to watch and I saw The Swarm. Like, is this the movie? I'm like, no, it's— it says one season. I was like, oh my gosh, it's like a bunch of orcas or something like that.

I don't know.

And then Tommy, a Keith pick. Then Dracula's Dog, a Terry pick. The Last Dragon, a Keith pick. And They Shoot Horses, Don't They, a Terry pick.

Wow.

Can I just say I had another omen this week?

Okay.

Might be. I don't know if this is going to ruin my omen by saying out loud, but I did have a dream the other day about the swarm.

Oh my goodness.

Being attacked by bees.

So about the oh oh actually being a swarm of bees, not the movie The Swarm.

Well, I think they were lore related. You know, it's always been on my mind since I suggested it.

So oh, it's always on my mind.

The swarm.

But, but, but Demon Dog hasn't been on your mind?

Okay, no, Dracula's Dog has been very far away from my brain. Anytime Derek says Dracula's Dog, I go, huh?

Oh, like, oh yeah, Dracula's Dog. All right, well, I'm gonna click this to spin and we're gonna get our last movie of the year.

Here we—

oh my God, we almost got Major Pain, but instead we're getting Sniper from Terry.

Wow, I can't believe it. I actually won one.

Yeah, it's another movie I've seen. Oh my goodness, I'm excited for Sniper.

I can't, I can't believe that Time Bandits was on there twice and still couldn't—

Time Bandits could not happen.

I will— that means I will never watch Time Bandits ever.

Well, I guess we did it. We got through 3/4 of our Oops All Wild Cards month. We watched Cartier. Now we're on to Sniper. We're going to end with Sniper. What a way to end the year. Sniper.

Yeah.

Sniper. Yeah. I was not expecting Sniper. That's like the sleeper hit.

It is the sleeper hit. I forgot it was on there till I said it. Sniper. All right. Well, I guess that leaves us with nothing to do but to end this thing the way we end everything.

I agree.

All I got left is a sense of humor and a washtub.

Well, at least there ain't no hole in the washtub.

Head full of good thoughts, belly full of grub, money in your pocket when there ain't no hole in the washtub. Sweetest honeysuckle on the vine, Ma. Your nails won't break and your toes won't stub. You never get a fever when there ain't no hole in the washtub. If you look to the good side, falling down's a free Thanks for listening to Fumbling Through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email us at [email protected]. Follow us on Bluesky at Film Fumblers and on Instagram at film.fumblers. You can also follow Keith on Instagram at kg33lives and Dad's Cards Daily. Terry's on Letterboxd at Terry2099, and Derek's on social media at Derek the number 9 and the word 9. All original music is produced by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. Hit him up for the bangers. See you next week as we keep Keep on fumbling. Keep on fumbling.