Nic Cage Wildcard: Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance (2011)

Gather together from the cosmic reaches of the universe. Here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled. Keith.

I thought he was horrible. I was like, man, who is this dude? I've never heard of him.

Terry. Well, I'm finally free. Here I am. I'm gonna start just growling and doing all this crazy stuff like he's having a blast now that he's finally out.

Derek. I have him there. I sprinkle them like dust on dead bodies to see if I can resurrect them. And the power Twins, Zap and Jordan with their magical lemur Snort Dedic to fumbling their way through movies one forgotten gem at a time. This week we make a pact with the devil in 2011's Ghost Spirit of Vengeance.

This is fumbling through film.

John,

you talk to Kerrigan? I talk to a lot of people who need Photoshops.

My friend

Kerrigan must have told me about that thing that killed his men last night, huh?

Yeah.

That thing is inside of me. See, you're a bad man. And this. This thing, the writer, he feeds on Batman. And he's hungry. He's hungrier than he's been years.

And that's why I'm shaking. Cause right now, the only thing standing between you and the rider is me. And he's just.

He's scraping at the door.

Scraping at the door.

All right.

If you don't tell me what I

want to know, I'm gonna let him out.

What is done with you?

There won't be anything left.

Do you understand?

Do you understand? Shake your head yes or no? Good.

Good girl.

Nice, Carrie. Dude. But the kid. The kid can. You will kill me. I would eat your second soul.

Hello and welcome to another one of a kind, genre defining, brand new episode of Fumbling through Film. They only show that there's to bring together three dudes to talk about movies. These, however, aren't just any movies.

Exactly. I love that you say that every week.

And I also say every week these are the ones we've missed, overlooked or feel are simply worth revisiting. And that's just about any movie.

Just about. We defined the category. At least one category of things that doesn't fit in any movie. I still think maybe we've blurred the

lines here, but it so no, we. We hit for not to be any movie. We have to find a movie that all three of us have seen, that do not want to revisit. Because otherwise one of us will either have not seen it, overlooked it, or Simply feel it's worth revisiting or one

of us has some issues.

It's possible.

I don't know.

But what's definite is, my name is Derek, and I'm a Fumbler. Joining me here in the Fumble Dome definitely is the prime minister of fumbling at film, Keith.

Hey. Hey, what's up, kg, Fumbler extraordinaire? And I have scraped all the way through

here again, through the door. Like a dog. Like a neglected dog. Just want to come in out of the rain.

Oh, just let him in, guys.

Just let them in. If you're. If they're cold. If you're cold, they're cold.

I'm never cold.

Well, no, Keith is. Keith runs hot. He's hot blooded.

If I'm cold, stay away from me. I probably got some massive illness.

He's dead.

Yeah, that too. Yes.

If I'm cold, I'm dead. Probably.

Someone should go look at him, though. Get a little close.

The other one that's getting a little bit too close is the Dr. Drave, Kansas Terry.

Hey, everybody. I got my stick. I'm gonna poke Keith, see if he's still breathing. Oh, he's good. There I am.

All right, all right.

You want to see a dead body? He's right there. Just poke him.

Just turn around. Oh, there he is. Oh, I brought my sticks, too. Here. Sweet. I always have one. Just in case I find a body.

You know what else we have just in case we find a body?

A podcast.

This podcast. I can't. I keep an extra one on me at all times.

An extra podcast.

An extra episode of this podcast. Keep it loose. My pocket.

Oh, the hidden episode. Nobody's heard yet.

Yeah, the. Those handful of episodes were recorded between the monsters and between this.

Yes, yes, I have them there.

I. I sprinkle them like dust on dead bodies to see if I can resurrect them.

It also sends. It helps their souls traverse.

It does. Yes. Yeah. It helps them ascend.

Yes.

Those are the ones that are. Those are the ones that are fully redacted even though we released them. That's what's going to be just.

Yeah, just an hour and 45 minutes of beeps.

I hear dead podcasts.

Well, for the people that are hearing this live podcast. Well, not live as in it's hell, you know.

Hey, live.

A live podcast. Let's tell them what it is we do here. Every week. We watch movies, but not just any movie. Every month, one of us chooses a theme, a genre, a guiding light, some sort of flaming transformation that. Yes, that guides us along our journey. We each choose movies that adhere to those flaming transformations. And on the fourth week, like this week, we truly fumble. Because we watch a movie that's given to us by a wheel of death that we.

That we signed off on a contract.

That we did. Blood for sure.

Not. Not much of my blood the way it seems to work out.

No, not much my blood. This. This. This go around either.

I've.

Some of us keep getting denied.

That's all right. I donated a couple extra liters.

Liters? Yes. Wow. A gallon of blood. Speaking of a gallon of blood, this month is a terry month. It's DTF down to fumble. Y2. Year 2. M6. That M stands for month. It's a Terry month. So, Terry, what did you bestow upon us this month?

Well, it's a TM Terry month, so that means it is Nick Cage month. We're watching Nick Cage films.

The logical leap of from tm. It's obviously Nick Cage. We're watching Nick K. We watch Nick Cage movies.

Yep.

And there's a ton of Nick Cage movies to choose from. So, Terry, would you start us off with.

I started out with Con Air.

Con Air.

Action classic.

Keith calls an action classic. And then I was like, well, there's so many to choose from. I'm gonna choose Jiu Jitsu, a modern action classic.

With a name like that, you'd think it would be an action classic.

You think it'd be full of grappling.

Yeah.

Nary to be found. And then week three was Keith, and

he gave us another action classic. The Rock.

The Rock Church. Welcome to the Rock.

Yeah.

Then we spun that wheel, and we got.

And the gloriously timed Bandits was chosen.

But there was one veto left in the chamber. And the trigger finger belonged to Terry.

Yep.

He fired it.

And I've been holding on to that for a while, too.

It was getting itchy, too. He almost used the last month, but he saved it for this month. So you fired that bullet and vetoed.

And we got Ghost Rider, Spirit of Vengeance.

Ghost Rider, Spirit of Vengeance, which Terry proclaims to be the best superhero movie ever.

Best Ghost Rider film for sure.

Best Ghost Rider film for sure. Better than the first one.

If you wanted to touch. To really judge how this worked out. When Madame Web got picked before and Terry did the veto, and I was so excited, and we moved on and we got to watch a James Bond movie. And then when he did, like, I was enthusiastic about that. And then this month, he did the opposite, and I was just. So the two Feelings could not be this far apart for him vetoing something.

Terry has been the veto master. He's strategically uses vetoes and it's always come up roses for him.

I say DeVito.

Oh, I like that. Terry DeVito. The Dr. Dre of Kansas. Terry. I like that. We'll call that. I think this is great though, because just like you said with the James Bond one, we vetoed it. And my pick on the wheel fit in with the theme and same with this one.

We have been. Usually our wheels are just. Who knows? You get everything from Zardas to Zardas. I can't. I can't. I couldn't think of an A movie

or another Z movie like the Quick

and the Dead we get from everything from Quick of the Dud to Zardoz. But the now this year, it seems to be the wheels been aligning with the theme. So that's kind of interesting that it does.

And when it doesn't, Terry seems to have a random veto to take care of that.

Yes.

I like it when that happens. I do like that.

I'm glad it's. It's resetting again soon. That's good.

It's going to reset in about an hour and 50 minutes. And then. Yeah, it edited down to an hour, hour and eight minutes.

That's pretty exact.

I know. I'm getting pretty good at it. All right, so this week we're watching Ghost Rider colon, Spirit of Vengeance. It's a colon, right?

There is a colon in there.

All right, Ghost Rider colon, Spirit of Interest. Not Ghost Rider 2.

No.

We don't want to, like, admit that we're a sequel.

God, no. It's as self contained as possible.

It's a soft reboot.

Yeah, basically. Yeah.

Ghost Rider colon, Spirit of Vengeance.

It's not. It's not two Ghosts to Rider.

No, it is not Two Ghosts to

writer or ironically, the first one's more. The first one's more two Ghosts two Rider than this one is because there's literally two Ghost Riders in it. Is there really?

Yeah.

Yep.

Does the. Is the first one. Is the villain in the first one ghost like a Ghost Rider clone?

No, no, the villain's worse than that, honestly. But there's Sam Elliott. Is the like Old west, the original Ghost Rider? Well, he's the. The Wild west one sounds it. Yeah.

I'll never see it. Anyway, before. Before we talk about our viewing of Ghost Rider colon, Spirit of Vengeance. From what year is this?

2011.

From 2011. Before we do a deep dive into Ghost Rider colon, Spirit of Vengeance from 2011. Did any of us have any previous knowledge, history, or experience of Ghost Rider? Colon, Spirit of Vengeance from 2011.

I'm aware of it. I had seen Ghost Rider and then vowed never to watch Nick Cage movie again in my life for a good probably half a decade or so.

Fair.

Five years.

Which would have included this.

Okay.

Yeah.

Wow. I mean, yeah, I've seen this probably like three or four times now before

today or before this viewing. Oh, wow, Terry.

I feel like this was a nice discovery for me. As a discovery, I wanted to share it with the world. And I feel like anytime I try to share with everybody, it never ends out the way I expect. Everybody.

Which did you see first? This one or the other or the original?

The original.

And you still thought this was a good idea to watch?

Well, I didn't watch it for, like, years later. I was, like, catching up on my. Like, like, it's weird because I. Completist.

We get it.

Yes, exactly. I'm a Marvel guy. I like comics, dc, whatever. And this is one that somehow I missed. I overlooked a long time ago. And I watched it a long time ago, and I was like, oh. And then I was, like, showing it to my friends, and they're like,

Then you had to get new friends.

Yeah, exactly.

Here we are with this podcast.

This was my master plan this whole time.

He's like Johnny Appleseed, but ghostwriter, colon, spirit of vengeance.

Yeah. I'm spreading that Ghost Rider seed as long as far as I can.

It's like a flamethrower. All right.

Spreads quick.

I. I had never seen it. I'd heard of it. I'd never seen the first one. I generally do not know much about the character Ghost Rider. He's got a motorcycle. The flaming head. That's about all I know. Who's his main villain?

Mephisto, I guess.

I thought it was. No, I was almost a door. I almost said Dormammu. But that's not right because that's Dr. Strange. Yeah.

Black Heart's a big one.

That's the guy from the first one. Right?

And he's horrible in the first energy.

Yeah.

But he's a cool villain in the comics, and he's a cool character in Marvel versus Capcom. Blackheart.

But Ghost Rider isn't a Marvel Versus.

Yeah. Isn't that funny that Blackheart made it into Marvel vs Capcom and Ghost Rider did not. This very obscure character, Blackheart, made it in there.

Well, that and Schuma Garath made it in there.

I mean, that's true. That's What I like about those old ones, they were just like picking whoever they felt like. Yeah, this guy was cool.

Spider Man, Iceman, Schumacher.

Yeah, it's like there's no Spider man villain in it. Oh, I guess Venom.

Venom's in there. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like you could have picked anybody. You picked Shuma, Gorath and Blackheart, which I love playing as both those guys, so it's worth it.

Well, Keith, you and I, we gotta relax.

Do we have to?

I mean, if you sit down in your recliner now and then it'll turn into a flaming recliner.

Ah.

Okay.

With the right. Whatever the rider is in, it transforms.

Something like that, right?

Yeah, we'll get to that. That's amazing.

So. Because Terry's gonna take us closer to this movie. What's. God damn it. Knight Rider. And I know it's not Knight Rider, it's Ghost Rider, colon, spirit Avengers from 2011 that we could ever imagine in another patent pending fumblers deep dive.

Yeah, we're talking about Ghost Rider. Spirit of Vengeance from 2011. Is this. You gotta believe it. It's a sequel somehow to Ghost Rider 1. Kind of. They don't really address Ghost Rider 1 at all. But this was directed by Mark Neveldine and Brian Taylor. So these guys are directing duo dynamic. Yeah, I think it's up to your own personal taste on that one. But maybe this will give you a clue. Yes or no. They wrote and directed the Jason Statham vehicle. Crank and Crank. High Voltage.

Okay.

Crank is good. I didn't care much for High Voltage.

Well, they're about an assassin who gets injected with some sort of toxin that will kill him if his heart rate goes too low. So he has to do all this extreme stuff to keep his heart pumping.

Yes.

All while beating up bad guys and seeing a half naked Amy. Smart.

Yeah, it's a. I remember those coming out and I remember, I think watching the first one, but I don't remember much about it. Never saw a second one. Never saw a second because there's also

some movie with Clive Owen and Paul Giamatti. I think that's like the same type of like really like fast paced in like we got to keep going type action movie.

Yeah. You're talking about shoot him up. Shoot him up.

Yeah.

There's the movie.

Bam.

Wow. Right after Children of Men. He goes to shoot him up. That's amazing.

Yep. Cl. Clo and eating carrots and shooting bad guys.

Yeah.

Oh, he eats carrots.

Yes. Like Bugs Bunny, man.

Oh, God.

But I remember it's still like really fast paced, like a lot of shooting and.

Yeah, but I don't.

The same way that Crank kind of is, where he's got a. Like there's like they start the action real fast and they don't slow down through the whole movie.

Yeah, but I don't think the premise is he'll die if he slows down.

No, no, no. Just there was like a string of movies like, where there was like they just dropped you in immediately and things started rolling. Like Crank, I think, like, he gets poisoned, like in like first like two minutes of the movie or something. And it's non stop for like 90 minutes.

The call to action happens in the first two minutes. It's amazing.

That's efficient.

That is efficiency.

That's screenwriting 102. Yeah, probably 201, I guess would be the better way to say that.

Either way.

Yeah, that's the next level. That's how master screenwriters work. Like these guys. They also wrote and directed gamer from 2009. Remember that one?

Jamie Foxx.

No.

Gerard Butler.

Butler, yeah.

Don't remember it.

So this is a dystopian world where prisoners become video game avatars for people.

Oh, I do remember this now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They like compete in violent battles. Like the people playing, it's like a video game, but it's actually real life. And they're the prisoners fighting each other.

Okay.

If they win like 30 battles, I think their sentence gets cleared.

Well, it's kind of like the Running man in a way, huh?

Yeah, it's a lot like that.

I think Gerard Butler is like, he just won his 29th.

Oh, yeah. One day to retirement, basically. What could go wrong? I remember not liking this movie very much back in the day, but I don't know, maybe it's good.

I'm sure it's terrible.

Yeah, I don't think it's that great. They also wrote the Jonah Hicks movie. Oh, boy. So they have dabbled in comic book material before. The Jonah Hex, the classic DC character, cowboy guy, the scarred face. That's literally all I know about Josh

Brolin in it, didn't it?

Yeah. Yep, yep. And the band Macedon ordered a song for that movie. Remember that?

Take your word for it.

It's true. I don't know if it was a good song, but they did Brian Taylor. He's done a little bit more than Mark Nevildean, so they must have like split apart maybe. They're probably still friends, of course. But you know Mark, Brian Taylor, he's. He's ventured into his own. So he directed another Nick Cage film, Mom and Dad. I remember actually liking this one. I've seen it. There's a virus that's affecting parents that turns them violence against their children. And Nick Cage plays the dad and the children have to fight back against him. Pretty good. I mean, it's not amazing, but it was decent. He also wrote and directed the latest Hellboy movie. Hellboy, The Crooked Man.

Okay, that one wasn't awful.

I actually like that movie.

There are some parts I actually liked a lot.

Was it a good movie? Not particular, but did I enjoy it? It was the closest to being Hellboy. Of all the Hellboy movies, it had

more of a, like, comic book vibe. Like that actual comic book and.

And the Crooked man is a really cool graphic novel, if you're into Hellboys stuff.

Yeah, yeah. It was a lot better than I expected it to be. I didn't expect it to be horrible, but it was a pretty decent. I still like Del Toro. I know they're not quite comic accurate, but I like those the best.

Still. Oh, yeah. I mean, those are fine too. But like, this one was also like, low budget.

Yes.

And it was. You could tell it was low budget, which is kind of disappointing in that sense. But it kind of gave it a little bit of charm.

I. Yeah. And the guy who played Hog Boy was really good. I can't remember. Yeah, he did a good job. So this movie was written by three different people.

Oh, that's always a good sign.

Yeah. Right. We got Scott M. Gimple, Seth Hoffman.

Oh, yeah, that's right. I saw the Third Person.

And David S. Goyer.

Yeah, that's the one.

He's the big name. The other two, who knows? Well, I do, because I'm going to tell you a little bit. So there's some footnotes I'm going to give you. So Scott M. Gimple, he's a big Walking Dead guy. He produced a ton of Walking Dead stuff. I never realized there was that many series for the Walking Dead. I guess there's a ton. Four or five, maybe. Yeah, there's the Walking Dead, Fear of the Walking Dead, the Walking Dead, World Beyond, Tales of the Walking Dead and the Walking Dead, the Ones who Live. At least that's what I thought was all. But then I looked at Seth Hoffman's credits, and he's also a TV guy and he's dabbled in Walking Dead and he's the writer and producer of the Walking Dead, Dead City, which is another spin off. Dear Lord, they really milking this Walking Dead thing.

Yes, they did.

Seth Hoffman also wrote and produced a bunch of House episodes, so there's that. Okay.

I love House. I haven't seen it a long time. Don't know if it holds up.

But one doctor I never actually ever want to go to. Yeah, he always seemed to make. He always made it like he went through, like, the absolute worst because he just was like, oh, well, you.

What you said.

Figuring things out.

The way you said that made it sound like you'd like to go to the doctor.

No, I hate going doctor.

The one doctor I actually don't want to go to.

It's like, all right. Keith goes every week just to hang out.

Yeah. No, they text me to come in for my physical, and I haven't yet set that up yet, so better do it.

I got mine next month. Very exciting. Exclusive scoop to all you fumblers out there.

Exclusive. Yeah.

Yeah. The upcoming episode will reveal Terry's cholesterol levels. And.

Yeah, I just got blood work done, so I can read off my cholesterol levels if you want.

Awesome.

Yeah. Great. Now I have to do this. Jesus. Goddamn. Get my physical.

We can rank them and then get the wheel going. So David Es Goyer, he's the bigger name of all these guys. He's done a lot of comic book stuff. He wrote Blade, Blade 2 and Blade Trinity, and he also directed Blade Trinity. Yeah. Unfortunate. He's also got writing credits on all the Nolan Batman movies. He wrote man of steel, the Constantine TV show, Batman vs Batman v Superman. Sorry, dawn of Justice, the Krypton TV show. He also wrote Terminator, Dark Fate, the latest Terminator film. We haven't had made a Terminator movie in a while, have they?

Oh, darn.

Goyer killed him.

Yes. I'll be back. Not really. Not really. He wrote the newest Hellraiser remake, which is actually pretty good, though. I like that movie.

Movie.

I like Hellraiser quite a bit. Although you only need to watch the first two and then the newest one. The rest, there's eight other movies you can just ignore.

That's fine.

And then I. I feel like he's kind of like a Hollywood comic guy, at least back in the day. I don't see him in much comic stuff nowadays, but back when it was like the Wild west, where you're getting Ghost Rider, Daredevil, blah, blah, blah, he was always being credited on all this stuff. So, of course, this movie stars Nick Cage as Johnny Blaze, AKA the Ghost Rider.

Yes.

He is the star of the month. We love Nick Cage. We've talked About Nick Cage. We're gonna talk about him some more. He's also a big comic book fan. He almost played Superman in Tim Burton Superman movie. That never happened.

That never happened.

Never happened. Never happened. But he did voice Superman in Teen Titans. Go to the movies.

He sure did.

And he also cameoed in the Flash as Superman, the new Flash movie.

Yeah.

And it's as though it's the one from the movie that he never was in.

Yes.

Like the giant spider and everything, alternative

universe sort of thing. Yeah.

The long hair.

Yep.

Yes, yes. I don't remember exactly why that never happened. I feel like there's just a lot going on with that thing.

Burton.

Yeah.

Kevin Smith writing it.

Yep. When. When that shows up in the Flash, I was like, that's awesome. Because I know of, like, all the, like, crap that went on with the movie and how, like, stupid the whole thing was, and so it was really cool to see. But I'm like, man, I like most of the people when saw Flash had no idea that that was actually like, a fun, like, giant Easter egg.

I bet you more people understood that than not. Well, I won't say that.

Not.

But I think. I think more than just. You got it, Keith.

No, no, no, no.

That. You were saying. But you know what? You know what I mean, right? Like, it was probably more than one out of 100. It was probably like seven out of 100.

Yes.

Which isn't a very good percentage, but still.

No, not at all.

Hey, I'll take it. After listening to this podcast, there'll be eight people out of a hundred. He was also in the first Kick Ass movie, another comic book film. Basically, he was like kind of sort of the Batman of that world. Like a legit superhero, although he killed people. And of course, he played Spider noir and spider verse movies and the most recent TV show, Big Comic Book Guy. This person.

Yeah.

Apparently his real name is not Nick Cage, but he chose the last name of Cage as a tribute to the Marvel superhero, Luke Cage. I did not know that. That's kind of cool. I didn't know that either. He also has a huge. He had a huge comic collection, including action comics number one, but it got stolen back in 2000.

It was stolen? Really?

It's a whole, like, a bunch of his collection got stolen. He got most. He got some of it back, but not all of it. I think he did get Action Comics number one back and auctioned it off. And it had like, a 9.0 grading, too, which is really good.

What, a 9?

Yeah.

For 100 year old comic or.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. Pretty. I think it went for like $2 million.

I bet. And that was the. Then it'd probably go for like 20 million now because.

Yeah.

For some reason there's people that just have more money than God. Yeah.

And who's buying this? Right. Exactly. Like, at some point, the nerd, like, cap is like, how much does this person actually. Who can afford to buy it at this point? Apparently somebody. Apparently some.

If I could, I would. I'd be honest with you.

Oh, yeah. I mean, if I had 20 million just to throw around, I might as well.

Now that. That's one of those daydream fantasies. If I could go back in time.

Yes.

Grab those and like seal them up and then bring them to the future. Or, like bury them somewhere so I could fight them in the future.

I would love that. Yeah. Just like a vault full of action comics number one.

Just. Just a whole ton of them. Then they all grayed out to tens and you're like, how is this even possible?

Derek has a vault that is the number one of like every comic book.

I went back in time with Tupperware containers and I put a bunch of ash comics.

Yeah.

Went back with a ten dollar bill, bought every action comic book I could.

Oh, and you could get a bunch.

Yeah, I know.

Because they're like two cents.

Yeah, man, it's. Right. It's rough to try and even buy comics nowadays. Like.

Yeah, it's expensive. It's expensive. I don't know. I don't know.

I bought two and the guy rang me up for 15 bucks. I was like, what?

Spit in his face and walked out

the door, ripped a comic in half in front of him, has this half off. Yeah. I wish I had action comic summer one, but that's never gonna happen.

Yeah, I wish I had it too.

I think he had the first appearance of Batman as well. I think detective comics number 30 something. Whatever.

Ye.

Whatever that one is. Yeah.

But yeah, he sold a bunch of his collection.

Okay. For.

Yeah. For debt or whatever.

Tyrannosaurus rex head, something like that.

Yeah. His haunted manor had to get sold. So sad. I got to see that manor. It was kind of nice. I'd been on a ghost tour and they walked right past. I said, nick Cage used to own this building.

You went on a ghost tour?

Yeah, in. In New Orleans. And I.

New Orleans. And they said, Nick Cage used to own this building.

Yeah. It was like a haunted mansion.

Spooky.

And you say, well, duh, he's the ghost. Right.

Yeah. I just Mocked the guy. I was like, obviously. That was kind of interesting, though. Yeah. But he sold all of his stuff because I think. Yeah, you're right. He was in debt.

I. I think it was IRS problems, wasn't it?

Oh, is that it?

Yeah, he was funding Jiu Jitsu.

Yeah, that too. Yeah. He had a couple of 25 million dollars. So he gets 5 million dollar cut out of it.

Yeah.

I wish you would have put a little more money into it, honestly. But yeah, he said that the comic books, he used to read them religiously as a kid. They basically taught him how to read. Inspired his imagination as an actor, because that's the most important part of being an actor, is your imagination. And then he also said that his favorites were always the monsters like the Hulk and Ghost Rider. I think he has a Ghost Rider tattoo as well. And he shouted out Jack Kirby as one of his favorite comic artists. Pretty cool.

That is cool.

So Idris Elba's in this movie as well as Moreau, another pretty big actor we've seen.

Very big actor.

Yeah, he's. He's been in some comic book stuff as well.

Can we. Can we get this correct? It is Sir Idris Elba.

That's true.

He was just. He was just recently united. He was like a week and a half ago or something like that.

All right, I'm gonna give you a clean cut. Derek just cut this in. Sir Idris Elba. Esme Roe.

Not yet a Nigel. He's a sir, so.

Yeah, yeah, he's not old enough to be a Nigel, I don't think.

No.

Yeah, give him 10, 15 more years. He'll be there. But yeah, he's been in some comic book movies too. He played Heimdall in the Marvel Thor movies, and then he was in the Losers, which is based off a DC Vertigo series. He was also Bloodsport in the second Suicide Squad movie and kind of sort of comic book related. He was in the newest Master of the Universe, played Duncan. Don't know who that is, but that's man of Arms.

Man at Arms, Yeah.

Okay, so he's a big character, isn't like he man's best friend.

Yeah.

Tila's father.

The one father.

It's Teela's father. And he's also the one guy who I. I think he's the one guy who knows.

Yes.

Prince Adam's secret. Yeah, yeah.

He has a secret identity.

Yeah. He's Prince Adam and he turns into he Man.

Is there a reason why he hides that from the world?

It's the Same way that Clark Kent and Superman work.

I. No, I. I really think it was to sell more toys.

That, too.

Because you can make the transforming Prince Adam. Or you could sell a Prince Adam toy, and you could sell he.

You could buy a Prince Adam toy that looked exactly like the he man toy, but one had, like, a long shirt on. And one thing. Yes.

Repainted He Man.

They literally are. They look so, you know, like the Superman, Clark Kent thing. It's like, oh, he's a Superman, glasses on. Which is somewhat true. But, you know, Clark Kent changes his posture and works for a living. Where Prince Adam is. He man is a giant physical beast of a man, right?

Yes, yes.

Prince Adam is a giant physical beast of a man. He's, like, shredded with a shirt on. Yeah.

Hey, man. Shirtless Prince Adam shirt and a weird, goofy haircut.

They both had the same haircut.

Nobody knows they're the same.

Well, one hangs around with a big, giant green and orange tiger. The other one rides on a big, giant green orange tiger that has, like, a battle armor with it.

But the other tigers are like a scaredy cat, though. Keith.

Yeah, Cringer. And. And he's. But nobody can actually put those things together. No, those.

Those dots do not connect.

Nope.

And he even screams out that he has the power. Right. The transformation.

Only when people aren't around, he runs, like, another area.

And, yeah, he goes behind a tree,

but did you hear that? Oh, that was weird.

Behind that tree over there.

Yeah.

Here comes a giant. Is that the silhouette of Prince Adam walking up from behind the tree? Oh, no, that's He Man. Sorry.

Oh, Prince Adam's wearing a shirt. This is a different guy.

I. I know in some of the, like, later, like, re. Visions of the cartoon that they put out, like, Netflix put out a whole series of stuff. Like, Adam's actually smaller. That makes a little guy. And so you actually see the transformation. But yeah, like, if you were to go in and I remember, you know, buying all the toys when I was a kid, if you go in, I mean, you have the He Man. You had the Prince Adam and then you had fake or. Which was, like, supposed to be like this. It's supposed to be like this robot. It was. It was a purple, purplish blue.

It's, like, bizarre.

He man, but it looked just like him. Had the same color hair, wore the same outfit. He was just that color. And the only difference between Adam and He man was the pink shirt.

Yeah.

And yet nobody understood All.

All he man toys had the same torsos and arms and like lower bodies. Just paint jobs were different and accessories.

They were going to do a Conan the Barbarian toy line and it never came through. And so they reused all of that to make the initial wave of he man toys, which is why they are all the exact same.

That makes sense.

Agreed.

I heard the he man movie is actually decent. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's been getting good reviews. I'm curious. Idris Elba's in it, so that's kind of exciting. I like it yourself.

I. As soon as I saw him show up on the screen for this movie, I was like, oh, this is already better than the first one.

There you go.

See? Oh, so he's not the first one at all?

No.

Is he a character that. Does he play a character that is in the Ghost Rider comics?

I have no idea.

Moreau. I have no idea either. That's a great question. But I would say probably. But I don't know. I don't know much about Ghost try either. I know the very bare minimum.

But I really enjoy the trope of like the corrupt priest. Like, yes, Priest that swears and smokes and drinks and shoots people. Fights bad guys. Yeah, I. I like that as a. As a trope.

Me too.

When it shows up, I always.

I also like it when he voices hedgehogs. Because he plays Knuckles. Oh, wait, no. He's an echidna, isn't he? He's not a hedgehog.

Nope. Yeah, he's an echidna.

Yeah. Get it right, Terry.

Sorry. Knuckles, if you're listening, please don't pummel.

He is listening. That's the thing.

He's our number.

He's always listening.

Knuckles. If you say Knuckles name, he is Ears perk up because he has super hearing.

He's great in everything. He's in Knuckles.

I know. I agree.

He is like the best three.

Sonic 3 or Sonic 2, where Knuckles first appeared. Either way. Yeah.

No, sir. Sir. Idris is. He's excellent. Everything he's done.

And I think Knuckles had his own TV show.

He did and was supposed to be really good.

Too decent.

Yeah.

Wasn't too bad.

I haven't watched. I watched Sonic 1 and I enjoyed it, but I haven't watched anything beyond that.

Was Shadow in the third one or the second one?

I have seen them all.

Shadow was.

Was the third one.

That was. What's his face though, right? Keanu Reeves.

Yeah, that's great. Casting a shadow.

Speaking. Speaking of Keanu Reeves, that is a fan favorite. If they were ever to redo this Ghost Rider thing that people want to see.

They want him to be Giant Blaze.

Yeah, he's like, 65 years old. It's like, there.

There's. There's rumors that Nick Cage is going to read come back as Ghost Rider in one of these upcoming Marvel movies.

Why? Like, these guys are.

Because. Because they're. Because they're bouncing through the multiverse.

I'm so proud of this. Yeah. Don't bring back the X Men. Don't bring back Ghost Rider. Don't bring back the Ben Affleck Daredevil. Just leave everything alone.

Yeah. Just leave it all alone.

I don't want to see a lecture again. I don't want to see her again. I mean, it's kind of funny at first, but I don't want to see these people again.

I don't.

If you're gonna tell the Daredevil story, you got a new Daredevil. Just rock with that.

Yeah, you already have Daredevil from the mcu. Do not bring Ben Affleck back. I cannot repeat. Do not bring Ben Affleck back. Don't bring Jean Cage back. It'd be funny for a second, but don't.

It's. And, no, it's not even funny for a second.

You know what they'll do is they're gonna make a joke out of it.

Yeah.

You know who'd be awesome? Tom Hardy would be pretty awesome as this. Yeah.

Cast Tom Hardy as ghostwriter. That's a great idea.

I'd be too confused because he was already Venom.

Oh, you're right. People are gonna get so confused by that. And that's two characters with, like, you know, dual personalities. That's way too much overlap. Yeah. We got to figure out who's gonna be Ghost Rider. We'll have to think about this while we're. We're talking about it.

Yes.

The last thing I also mentioned that interest Elbow was in was, of course. What's that movie? Oh, Cats. That's right. Using the latest adaption of Cats, the Butthole Cats. Ah.

Okay. You know what? I take it back. I said he's awesome. He's great.

I've never seen Cats. What if he steals the show? Well, what if he. What if he is the equivalent of Nick Cage in Jiu Jitsu?

Oh, he could be.

He's just like, boy, this movie sucks. But there's Idris Elba.

Cats is his Jiu Jitsu.

Yeah.

Yes. Thank God. It just. I was in this to elevate Cats to another level. That could be it. Honestly, he plays a character called Macavity.

McCavity. Like some. What you would get from McDonald's if you ate too much of their ice cream or something like.

Yeah, exactly. A Macavity. M A C A V I T Y Macavity. I watched the trailer for this because I really don't. Well, I wanted to know what Cats is about, obviously.

Oh, I thought you were saying. I thought you were about to say that you watched it.

No, I didn't watch Cats. I'm not going that far. Dear Lord. Thank God this is a wheel week so we don't have to talk about Cassian. I don't really understand what's going on. They're all competing to be chosen to become reborn or something.

I don't know.

They're getting judged by their dancing and their souls. Idris Elba does say in the trailer he's got plenty of soul. That's what he says, so that's probably in his favor. I was a little confused, so I read the IMDb synopsis and here's what it said. A tribe of cats called the Jellicles must decide yearly which one will ascend to the Heaviside layer and come back to a new Jellicoe life.

Why, Andrew Lloyd Weber, you crazy bastard.

Look, if Derek and I didn't go see it at that one theater in Chicago where it was playing for like 50 straight years, we were never gonna see it.

I'm never gonna see Kids.

No, I'd rather see A Cat and a Hat before I saw Cats.

I agree. Oh, man.

The last person I'm going to talk about is Johnny Whitworth, who plays Kerrigan in this AKA Blackout, classic Ghost Rider villain, not to be confused with Blackheart. This is Blackout. First I ever heard of him was watching this movie. Most of the stuff this guy has been in, I have never heard of as well. So he's been in 12 episodes of CSI Miami where he played Jake Berkeley. If you know that guy. I don't know who that is, but you might. I don't know. He's also in Gamer, which we talked about. He was also in a movie called Bird Eye. A bird's Eye, sorry. It's about an obsessive Colorado sheriff who's trying to recreate the crime of this Swedish man who gets kidnapped and murdered. There's some questions about, like, how possible this crime actually was, the plausibility, the motives. So the sheriff goes around town trying to recreate it perfectly, just to, like, get the details exactly right. And he recruits his young son to help him.

Okay.

And I guess I get too deep into it and danger lurks around every corner. I don't know.

That always happens.

Yeah, maybe some people start to get mad at him. He was also in the movie Limitless. This is a movie about a guy who takes a pill.

Yeah.

Boosts his brain to maximum power.

That's actually not a bad movie, if I remember correctly.

No, it's a good movie with.

What's his face, Bradley Cooper. That's his name.

And De Niro, I think. Isn't it also?

Yep.

I like that. I saw that one in theaters.

Seen that one a long time.

It's magic pill and it makes you really smart. He takes it. He becomes a financial success. He becomes a super genius. But he becomes in danger because he elevates himself to this new level of like the high life. He's competing with all his business people. And danger, I guess.

Danger, danger.

Every corner.

Once again, it's like Flowers for Algernon.

Yes, the rich and the powerful want to take him down, but just hyped

up amplified Flowers for Eldredon.

It's like if Alf Flowers for Algernon took a pill to get to maximum extreme.

So I. I want to say, like the. Based on the guy that you just ended there with in. In my notes, I. I specifically wrote down, did they run out of budget for the Kerrigan rule?

Oh.

Because they actually have a couple of big name people in there. And he's the one that bothered me the most every time he was on screen.

He bothered you?

He was terrible throughout the whole thing.

I thought he was terrible.

Yes.

I thought the guy who played a Kerrigan was awesome. Johnny Woodworth. He did a good job.

I thought it was horrible. I was like, man, who is this dude? I've never heard of him.

I liked his, like, pizzazz.

Oh, see you. You're saying Kerrigan. And I was thinking of the guy that was the devil.

No, he. The Kerrigan is the. The, like the drug runner guy.

Yeah, I remember now. Yeah.

And. And I was just like, man, this guy is not like. Like, it's kind of bad when he's on screen.

I thought he was the second best performance, if not the first.

I. Yeah, I didn't mind him when he. When he first appeared on screen. I thought he was Jack Quaid at first. I was like, what?

Yeah, yeah.

Because he had that same kind of like poofy hair.

Yeah. And like, same kind of mannerisms, too. Like the kind of sassiness.

Yeah, yeah. But it wasn't him.

Yeah.

Jack Quaid was probably only, like, 18 when this movie came out.

Yeah. He could have played the devil, son.

Yeah.

Oh, well. Yeah, I actually like that guy. I thought he did pretty good. I liked him as a villain. I didn't necessarily like the makeup effects. When he turned into Blackout, it looked kind of goofy with the light white hair and the pale skin. But I still thought he was kind of funny when he's, like, eating the stuff in the. The truck, you know, the decay. His power of decay.

I actually thought that was kind of a funny scene.

Yeah. He's, like, trying to eat stuff and he can't.

He couldn't eat a Twinkie because Twinkies are, like, indestructible.

Yeah, that was.

That.

That was funny.

That was kind of funny. And what was. What was interesting about that? I mean, let's just go ahead and start talking about this movie since. God damn it, Terry. You got so close as a villain, so. Terry. And. And you'll appreciate this because it reminded me.

No, the.

My Hero Academia character, Shigaraki. Right. Who is who? That's. His power is the. I believe it's called. It's just quirk is called decay or something like that. Right. And when dude gets the decay power, he's got like. He's white with long hair and he looks like Shigaraki. But my hero Academia didn't come out for another five years, so.

Oh, you think it's inspired by.

Was the creator of My Hero Academia inspired by Ghost Rider, Colon's spirit of Vengeance from 2011?

I think he might have been. I hope so.

But I will say the Shigaraki character is far more terrifying. The.

Oh, yeah, Kerrigan. Kerrigan is like a goofball.

He's like. He's comic relief more than he is a villain.

Yeah, he's kind of like the. The big henchman. Like, he is basically the main villain because the devil doesn't do much, but the devil was, like, the mastermind.

Right.

Then Kerrigan's, like, the guy who's running around doing everything for the devil.

Yep.

Yeah, I. I like him better as, like, a normal man. I. I kind of like that contrast of just like a normal, like, mercenary guy, like, like, trying to figure out how to kill the Ghost Rider, and he just, like, keeps using bigger and bigger guns to do it.

I. They could have done something to make him be that character without completely giving him the weird look, you know, just some. Some kind of like, more like noticeable, milder alteration to how he looked that he. So that he was in.

You know, he didn't like him looking like one of the twins from Matrix Reloaded.

Oh, Lord, you're right. He does look like that guy. He does. And that's what he looks like in the comics, to be fair. He has that exact look.

Yeah.

Male skin and the white hair.

Now, I watched the first Ghost Rider a few days earlier and I. They brought in a couple extra like, henchmen guys and that and I all. I thought all those were really weird looking too.

Oh, they're worse.

Yeah, they're definitely worse than that one. But like, all their, you know, powers and abilities are all like it. It just doesn't come across well on this. And, and that's. And that might be my problem is I did watch the first one ahead of time and it tainted me a little bit. So when he does turn into this decay character, I'm like, oh, God, not like the other guys.

He's better though.

Bad characters from the other movie.

I think he's way better than slightly.

When he's a human. Yes.

But he's got personality. He's funny. At least he's got something going for him. I don't know. I think he's.

He can still eat Twinkies despite his decayed curse.

Yes, yes.

Now I. Now I do have. So again, in watching the first one, they show him signing the contract in this movie. Like they, like they do just a quick little cut through of him signing off on the. On the contract. Like it's all tied around the same exact thing he does in the first movie. I don't know why. They kind of like retcon it a little bit to like, for whatever reason, like there's a whole thing going on. And they could have just showed it from like a different angle or something, made it look like it was from a different angle so that you could see the new guy playing the devil this time around. The whole thing is based off of where he ended the first movie, but they don't want to reference that first movie at all.

Yes, they ignore it, which I think is great. I think it's great. Just get rid of that first movie. It's not important. Just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. He made deals. That's all I need to know, really. That is. And they, they changed some like, key details. Like it's a lot more dramatic in the first one. In this one, they kind of make it more quick and aloof a little bit. But I think that's a smart decision.

In the first one, like he opens up a scroll and his finger cuts on the Top of it, the blood drips down and he's like, oh, gotcha. Where? In this one, he actually, like, smashes his hand and like, sprays the blood down for his signature. Yeah, that's a. Kind of a. Two different, you know, things going on. Like, the first one, he's not even ready to, like, sign the contract and he gets tricked into it.

I like the more intentional though, I think, in the second one.

Yeah. I. Another big thing that I think from the first one. The second, another big jump that they make is the Ghost Rider looks amazing compared to the first movie. In this one.

He looks really good in this movie, I think.

Yeah.

And the burning leather, the like, skull that's like kind of like, I don't know, smoky. And the fire effects, it looks actually really good. I. I really think it looks.

It's a big jump from the first one, but. And I. I think you guys both said you. You saw, you've seen like the latest Fantastic Four movie.

Huh?

Even though this movie is like, you know, that movie's like, like another decade or so after this one comes out, they really struggle to make people look like they're on fire. Like, because that's one of the things that bothered me a lot in Fantastic Four was like, Johnny Storm looked. He just looks odd every time he's, you know, in Human Torch mode. There's something a little bit off with the fire, even in this one. Like, it looks. It's again, a huge jump from the first one, but it still just looks so off. And I'm like, they just have trouble making people look like they're on fire.

I thought I looked great. I really did. I don't think he looked weird.

I think unless you actually put something on fire, fire is hard to like it. It gets that uncanny valley quality to it because fire is. Has like an organic, unpredictable, natural sort of quality to it. Like flickers and flames and goes wherever it wants to. And computer rendered fire just. It seems formulaic at times. They're very mathematical.

Right. And it's just randomness of the.

It's hard to pull off and make it look. It's like water. It's hard to make that stuff look right.

But it is a massive jump from the first movie.

Just like the costume design looks so cool.

Yeah, the first one looks like it's just like some weird, like, poorly generated computer graphics to make the skull and the flame. So this one, the setup and design of it is, you know, is a whole lot better.

I thought it still looked kind of like bad computer Graphics.

You thought it looked bad?

Oh, I don't think it looked bad. I just didn't think it looked great. But it looked, it looked 2011.

Yeah, for the time it looks really

good, which is fine. Right. Like, I'm not gonna hate on that. It was better than like a 2B original.

Right.

It was Titanic 666. But like those, those weird moments like that opening clip, whereas it's screaming at the toy.

Oh, shifting's kind of weird.

Like the, the eyeball when he's on

the motorcycle flying along and his ey. Like they keeps popping back and forth while he's driving and they got the close up camera on him.

Yeah, that's a little weird.

Yeah, I, I did. I actually kind of like that there, there's some things that are done in this movie like, that are very visually interesting. Yeah, the, the, the, the dynamic directing duo did some stuff. Like they did that animated sequence about the devil on earth and there's that weird transformation scene. It's like, like it was like kind of like hand drawn and went to black and white and whatever that scene was. Like there's, there's things that are done not to be realistic and I think like, like that's like that scene where his eyeballs are popping out and stuff. Like that kind of almost felt like a Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas sort of quality. Like it was done because it's meant to be surreal and trippy and not real. Right. And yeah, I thought that was cool. I thought it was fine.

Right.

Like, and also because he's going nuts the whole time trying to like hold it in as well. So every time it starts like you know, break out, he's really struggling with it. You know, you're just getting like one half his face turns into, you know, just the eye is like a skull, you know, open, you know, like, you know, blank like hole there and stuff and then it pops back to normal and then it does it with the other eye and then he's just laughing maniacally throughout the whole thing. It's. Yeah, I mean it's definitely a really well done like upgrade from, from the first one for him to be like, yeah, now he, I, I don't know like how far, how much time is actually supposed to have happened between the first one and the second one, but that he's, I mean he's been going nuts this whole time. He's living by himself in like some like, I don't like a garage someplace

and some little, it's like corner of

Europe Just trying to stay away from everyone.

He's got some Hulk vibes for sure. He's like trying to hold back his. His anger or whatever. Yeah.

Now is. Is that the way Ghost Rider is in the comics?

I think kind of, sort of. I think it's more of a. I think at first, I believe it was at night time. He would transform no matter what. And then I think he shifted to like it was kind of a conversation in their head kind of thing where it's like Johnny Blaze would try something. He's like, okay, I can't do this. Can I get your help? And then the. The spirit of vengeance would like turn and they would transform. You know, that's more of a debate in their head. I think they is drawn to like the.

The.

The violence and the darkness of sinners and stuff.

If it's night time and he's near somebody who sinned, he in the first movie, like, he's like, this has to happen. I can't control anything. And he mentions it a whole bunch of times. But then he still has that power to like really kind of aim it in whatever direction he has to.

From. From the comic that I really thought was cool back in the day. But you know, if you remember the World War Hulk event where Hulk comes down to Earth for revenge and like takes on every single superhero, basically there's like a spin off with Ghost Rider, like a tie in and Ghost Rider fights the Hulk and what. How it worked in that comic at least. I don't know if this is how it always works, but it's like he. Johnny Blaze is transformed into Ghost Rider, but he is mostly in control the whole time and they're fighting the Hulk, but he can't use everything he's got, like the full power of the Ghost Rider unless the. The spirit of vengeance is in control. And so then like they're fighting. He's like, okay, I can't beat the Hulk. All right, Ghost Rider, go ahead, unleash. And so then he lets go shrider out and then go Shyder, like leaves because he's like, the Hulk's not guilty here. Everybody else here is guilty. And he leaves. So like, maybe it's kind of that way too where it's like, I don't know. I think it's evolved over the years where he could. He's been able to control it more and more as he's gone on. I like the vibe of this movie. I think it's very like. I guess to me it feels like a grindhouse kind of Thing a little bit very over the top. Like you're saying it's not supposed to be taken seriously at all. Action is ridiculous. I mean he's like spitting bullets out of his face. He's fired.

I like, I enjoyed that, that part.

The Ghost Rider has a lot of personality when he is transformed. Like he's acting very strange, which I think is kind of cool. It's a little otherworldly where he like is kind of just like. I don't know, he's. He's like floating in the air, like spinning around at times. Like you're like, what is he even doing? I don't know. I, I like the, the strangeness of the Ghost Rider and then I like the action and the way it seems to get like so ridiculous with. Yeah. The fire breathing and the, the giant transformation of the excavator thing.

That was amazing.

I mean that was cool. So as soon as they showed that excavator, I'm like, it looks just like a motorcycle. It looks just like a motorcycle.

Yeah.

I'm like, so they're gonna do something with this. And then him. So he's. He's in, he's in the excavator. Like the, the cab or whatever that's called the cockpit of the excavator. Running the, running the gears and moving the sticks and doing stuff. And it just made me laugh because it felt like he was, he was just like doing construction work, right?

Yeah, yeah. It's not quite as like engage. Visually engaging, but he sees like cackling

and yeah, there's like this over the shoulder shot where you kind of see what he's looking at and all you can see is the cab of where he's sitting and there's like the little portal he's looking out of a guy would run by and that was it. Like, like this isn't fun or engaging. But when they show like the visual of it looking like an enormous flaming motorcycle, I'm like, that's pretty cool. Like that's part of the, the visual things that they did that were interesting this movie. But I'm like, is that how Ghost Rider works when he sits and then he. Then later on he's like, what? Whatever, whatever the writer sits in, he. That's his, his. This vehicle or whatever. I'm like, okay, that's interesting. Then why later on when he gets his ghostwriter powers back a la every second superhero movie ever, where they give up their powers and they get them back?

Yeah.

Why does his motorcycle. That he's not on turn into the. The Ghost Rider motorcycle and come to him or whatever.

It's like a spirit animal kind of thing, I think.

Yeah, I thought it was. I thought. I thought it was based. Literally, whatever he was in became the Ghost Rider vehicle.

Yeah. But I think the motorcycle is a whole. The motorcycle is a whole separate entity outside of that.

That's like his noble steed. Yeah, yeah.

Because it, like, growls and stuff throughout one of the movies. Like, anytime he's near it, like, makes noises like it growls and stuff when it's in.

Yeah. That was another thing in this movie, too. There's a lot of, like, growling.

Yeah.

Is that. Is that how Ghost Rider works? Is he.

I don't know.

He speaks in guttural sounds.

He's unhinged.

I. But. And I think it's the same thing, you know. So Nick Cage is going crazy because he's been keeping it locked away. And then when he releases it, the Ghost Rider is weak because it hasn't fed on souls in a long time because he's been hiding away. And so I think for most of it, like, it's not fully there yet. It doesn't know what's going on yet. To me, it's like, I just got out and I don't know what's supposed to be happening now.

I thought Ghost Rider was like, he's milking it for all his worth. Once he's transformed, he's like, well, I'm finally free. Here I am. I'm going to start just growling and doing all this crazy stuff like. Like he's having a blast now that he's finally out. That's what I thought. He's not taking it super serious. He's kind of just, like, having fun.

It was like the first time he shows up against, like, and, you know, tries to stop the guys from taking the kid the first time. And they hit him with the grenades, the grenade launcher thing, like, when he's first shows up there, like, the flame doesn't look like it's fully, like, going the entire time either. And he's like, kind of just. He kind keeps stopping and looking at, like, the chain that he has with them. Yeah, he kind of, like, stretches out a little bit, like, I'm supposed to be doing something.

You might be right before he turns,

like, whips a bunch of people. I think it's because it just. It doesn't. It's been locked away and hasn't got its full strength at that time.

So he's not Ghost Rider. He is the vessel for the writer is that.

Yes.

So. So Johnny, Johnny Blaze is just a guy that made a contract with the devil to save his dad.

Yes.

But the demon that is the writer possesses his body.

Yeah. Because. Because of the contract, the deal was that the devil was going to use him as a vessel for the Ghost Rider. And the ghost is supposed to be like the devil's like henchmen go out his bounty hunter. My souls for me. Do my, my deeds for me. But he kind of went rogue and he's. Yeah.

And so at the end of the first, he does something at the end of the first movie that basically satisfies this and the, the devil is willing to give him his soul back. He goes, nope, I'm hold on to it. I'm going to be the spirit of vengeance. And you know he says that at

the end of the first movie.

Yes. And he said because he's going to go out and he's going to try and stop evil or whatever it is, instead of like hunting people down for the devil, he's going to do just the opposite and like stop those people instead of up front. And he says spirit of vengeance. Which is why I think he calls himself the spirit of justice at the end of this one.

Because no, for the very end of this movie, they're like, did we win? He's like, yeah, we won like hell or something like that. I can't remember nobody but he's.

But he claims he can feel the spirit of justice and he's got like that blue light.

Yes.

And when he rides off at the end, he's got the blue light, not the flames. I think they thought they were going to do a thing third movie.

It's revealed that the, the so and this is also true of the comics, it's not like a demon that's possessed him. It's actually like a fallen angel.

Fallen angel. He said that in the movie.

Yeah. And they. So that's what he's talking about. Like now that he realizes it's not like a demon, he's like, oh, well, now that you say that, I can kind of sense the goodness. So he's going to try and use the, the side of justice the angel has for good. Oh, okay. Well, good.

I think they were trying to work. I think they were trying to work in a third movie called that. That makes you feel better. Justice.

Because for. I was like, I can't, I can't. I can't. Like another anti hero movie.

I've had so many antiheroes. He's a scary Guy. How am I supposed to root for this guy? He's a skeleton. I'm not gonna root for this skull

head on a motorcycle. Only ruffians and toughs ride motorcycles.

He's got a leather jacket on and

he swings a chain.

Oh, my God. This is too rebellious for me.

It is. It is, too. It's the spirit of rebellion.

Oh, now, that would be it. That'd be the fourth movie.

Yeah. Hopefully, if we ever get there. We're still waiting for the third one, right?

Yeah, we'll get that. I think.

I would think so. Based upon the success of the first two.

So wildly successful.

Do we do it Boils? Did we get through Ghost Rider, Cold spirit, Avengers from 2011?

I think we did.

I think we did.

I feel like we did. What did we think?

We didn't talk about Christopher Lambert.

He's a tattooed priest who tries to murder a child.

He does do that.

And then he gets killed by Blackout. Oh, can we talk about Idris Elba fighting Blackout. And then he headbutts Blackout and his head explodes.

Yeah.

And the ash gets caught in his eye.

That was awesome. That was such a cool moment.

It was kind of cool. There's.

I like, his. His reaction is like, ew, that's so gross.

I enjoyed this one more than the first one.

Hey, just like Terry said you would.

Terry's other friends are weird. They. They thought the first one was better, but overall, like, this is not good at all. Like, it's amazing that they made a sequel in the first place based off. Off of how bad the first one was.

Like, Terry's on board with it until.

Yeah.

No, And. And I. I like Nicholas Cage. I like Idris Elba. I like Christopher Lambert. I just. It's. It. This movie is just so throwaway at the end. Like, there's not enough good in this movie for me to ever want to watch.

I think I'm on the other side of the fence on this one. I think there's plenty of good in this movie to make you want to watch it again. Like I said, I've seen it, like, four times. I think it's pretty decent. I don't think it's amazing by any means, but I think it's a pretty enjoyable movie. I think the vibe is really good.

The.

The grindhouse kind of.

The.

The style of it has some personality, which I really like. First, Ghost Rider movie has no personality. And it's the most boring thing ever. This movie. It's immediately, like, showing its cards of, like, look, we're actually Going to try and do something unique with this and you know, put our own little spin on it. That's so nice. I've always said. And I like Keith mentioned, I. I watched the first Ghost Rider movie. Then I watched Spirit of Vengeance. I was like, wow, Spirit of Vengeance is like a masterpiece compared to Ghost Rider. And then I was like, behold, my friends, we will watch Ghost Rider 1 and then we'll watch Ghost Rider 2. Because to me it's like Ghost Rider 1. If you watch that, you'd realize how low the bar can be. And then you watch Ghost Riders prevention, you realize, oh wow, this is what it could have been the all along and been decent. My friends disagree with me. When we did the marathon of Ghost Rider 1 or Ghost Rider 2, they did not like either of them but they preferred the first one. So I never felt so betrayed. But I think this is a decent movie. I think it's good. Nick Cage is a. He gets a little too crazy at times, but it matches that over the top vibe so I'll give him a pass. I think it's good. The action is really good. The villain is. It has some personality. I really like the villain in this. Well, really like spammy, stronger. But I enjoy his performance overall all around. Pretty decent for like a pre MCU kind of Marvel thing. This is one of the better ones, I would say.

It was a movie. It was fine. Was it the worst thing I've ever seen? No, it was not. Nick Cage is absolutely terrible this movie.

Oh no, no, no, no. Now that I'm gonna disagree with. I. I think he's. He is the best part of this entire movie. He is the craziest

part of this movie.

No, I. Nicholas Cage is great. Just same as ways like. Like he wasn't like Jiu Jitsu. Like he's weird over the top thing, steals every scene he's in.

No.

Oh, I couldn't handle it. It was. It was way too much for me. The Nick Cage was off the charts and I just makes my skin crawl. I liked the visual things that happened this movie. Some interesting ideas. The story is incredibly cookie cutter and bland. Just was. It was a movie. It was fine. It was, you know, it is what it was. Well, I.

For watching you say a cookie cutter. Bland. But look, if you'd watched Ghost try one beforehand, I think it would have elevated your experience with this one.

No, I'm glad I didn't.

You won't have a regret. Watch Ghost Rider 1. But I think you'll put Ghost Rider, Spirit of Vengeance Into a higher regard.

Yeah, well, no, Terry, we. We need the. You know, this is an experiment. We need the. We're the test subject of not seeing the first one to keep us balanced.

And the real test is to continue with Terry's unofficial Ghost Rider trilogy and then watch Drive Angry after this. Let's see how that is.

Yeah, man.

Darn. Too bad Nicholas Cage month is done.

I haven't announced next month yet.

Angry Driving movies, too.

That would be amazing, actually, if you did.

Well, calm down. Well, we know what we thought about this movie. What a leader would have to say. Oh, God. On November 16th of 2018, B. Sellers, hyphen 84392 had this. I'm assuming that's Brad Sellers, former NBA player.

Yeah.

He said this to say, this is my favorite movie. I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I thought Nicholas Cage was perfect for the part. And something about this movie has always made me really enjoy it.

Yes.

Four found that helpful.

That's it.

Not so much. 10 out of 10. Yes.

It's not 10 out of 10, but I get him completely. I feel like we're blood brothers.

Blood brothers. Yeah.

That's. Finally someone's on my side. That's what I feel like.

Oh, I did the inverse here. Flipping around, and I'm trying to find one that isn't 40 paragraphs long.

But how much could there be the dig to hate about this movie? Come on. All right, people.

But not to be outdone in sentiment or word count, on February 15th of 2021, Dickinson, Jason, hyphen 34081 had this to say. Worse than the first one?

No. Okay.

I remember seeing this one twice in theaters, and I hated it. Hated it. Absolutely trash. Three found that helpful. Three, not so much.

One out of ten. That's it. How. What happened to the IMDb count where you have to write like 500 words?

Well, it's made up for by all the other people that have reviews. They're very long and very in depth.

This is them. Short and sweet's nice.

Yeah, there's. Well, you know, when people hate something they have, they just have that willingness to just.

Yes.

And moan.

It's a lot easier to complain than it is.

It is so much easier to complain. It's so much easier to talk about the things you dislike as opposed to things you love. But, yeah, yeah, let's leave a short and sweet. That's what happens when you do. Ghost Rider, colon, Spirit of Vengeance from 2011. We did it. We got boys. We got through DTF down. Fumble. Y2.

Year two.

M. Six. Month. Six. Nick Cage month. We're almost half a fumbling year through the calendar.

Almost.

I think we. What we? Oh, boy. Keith, you gotta bust out that spreadsheet, don't you?

Yeah, we gotta do some rankings. I almost forgot.

We gotta rank these mugs from this last month. There. Nick Cage of Palooza.

Wow.

I got my ranking here right in front of me because I.

How could you make me rank Nick Cage as an actor? Oh, not even as actor. I guess we're talking about his movies. He could be perfect in every movie.

But, I mean, he could be.

Is he, though?

Yeah, no, there's. I. Maybe it's like an acquired taste, like coffee, but I just. I can't. Nick Cage. When Nick Cage is good, like an adaptation. I really enjoy him. When Nick Cage is Nick Cage, It's. It's too much for me, Matt.

Now that would be an interesting duology. Watch adaptation and then watch this and see, like, wow, look at the difference. Different sides of Nick Cage and very

different size of Nick Cage. All right, Keith, you got that spreadsheet out?

Yeah, I'm good.

All right, remind us what we're ranking.

We are ranking. Conair, Jiu Jitsu, the Rock, Ghost Rider, Colon, Spirit of Vengeance from 2011.

I got my order. I don't know, Terry. Do you. Do you want to go first, Terry, this year? Month?

Yeah, I think I should go first for this one. So I think this is a tough one, but I. I think the strongest film we've watched this month. My favorite film is. Is Connor. Okay, let's go into number one. I should have probably done reverse order, but it's too late now. Connor. Connor is number one, obviously. And then a decent jump down, but still pretty good. I'm gonna put Ghost Rider, Spirit of Vengeance.

Okay.

I like that movie quite a bit. And then really. And then after that, not that far much down is the. The. The other one we did that Keith picked. What was it called?

The Rock.

Rock.

Gentlemen, welcome to the.

Welcome to the Rock. We're gonna throw that at number three. And then Jiu Jitsu is a hard last place.

Hard last place.

It's like the rock bottom.

All right, you got yours, Keith.

I'm gonna go with the Rock, followed by Con Air, followed by Ghost Rider, Colon, spirits, Vengeance from 2011, and then Jiu Jitsu.

Wow.

I'm gonna go from worst to first on this one.

All right.

Coming in at dead last in spectacular fashion. Just one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Jiu Jitsu. Then above that, Ghost R. And it's a. It's. It goes Jiu Jitsu. And then like a thousand yards down the field is Ghost Rider, Colon, Spirit of Vengeance from 2011. And then right next to it, like, they're all bunched together. It's called grouping. And darts or archery is Con Air. And then right next to that is the Rock. So the Rock, Con Air, Ghost Rider, Jiu Jitsu. Jiu Jitsu was really, really bad.

Yeah, that one just can't compete.

No.

Solid month all around, though.

First for some, because even the best

part, because even as bad Jujitsu was, it's Nick Cage month. Nick Cage was the best part of the movie.

And it really helps if you like Nick Cage.

I guess if I had to rank the performances, I think it'd be about the same.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe Jiu Jitsu would beat Ghost Rider. I don't know. I. I like. He has a lot more time and Spirit of Vengeance to be, you know, himself. Jujitsu. He's in there for like, 20 minutes, talks.

You think he's being himself in Ghost Rider? Spirit of Vengeance?

Yeah, he's being himself. I think he played himself on that one.

Oh, man, I don't know.

He's letting himself loose.

Yeah,

he's talking about, like, I've really let the id out of my brain. I was really inspired by Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and other 1920s films

and, and, and that might be true, and I respect all that, but, man, just watching him do his thing is tough for me sometimes.

Yeah, he's an interesting guy to listen to his interviews because he's got some very interesting inspirations. Like when he's talking about Spider Man Noir, he was talking about how he was, like, looking at these art pieces and how he's trying to, like, how can I translate this art from painting and use it in my performance to get that exact same vibe and all this stuff. He goes into some strange and deep places for his. His work.

Have you guys watched that yet?

No, just the first two episodes.

Yeah. So I'm, I'm. I think we're through six of the eight. And in the most recent episode, there's definitely somebody just wrote in the script, Nicholas Cage do some, you know, whatever you think this is going to be. And he really jumps out into, like. He throws himself fully into what goofiness is supposed to happen.

He likes to do that. He likes to have his little Nick Cage freakouts.

Yeah, it's very much him. Like, I'm sure they May even gave him notes and said, no, let's try something. And he's probably. No hope. This is what we're doing because it's so. Just weird. But it's very on point for Nick Cage based on, like, all the other movies and stuff that he does.

You can watch it, Derek.

Yeah, maybe. We'll see. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's got Miller and Lord. They're producing it. Right. So they. They usually are consistently good. So.

Yep, true.

All right. And then we're on to.

Wait, what?

Hey, I've just let my inner Nick Cage out.

I like it.

We're on to.

It was scraping through.

Yeah, we're. I'm scraping at the door.

Derek's.

Derek's in her. Nick Cage is scraping at the door.

The next category might be Scraping at the Door.

At the door. It is Scraping at the Door, the next category. And so DTF Y2M7 is a me month. And so I. I bring forth a new category.

Yes.

Now, let me explain where this category came from. I was originally going to do this category in DTF Y2M4, but I happened to come across the Big Justin on Threads with Big Bad Betty, and it totally changed everything. So I'm just holding it over and I. If this is too, too easy or too. Whatever. Force. Keith, I'm sorry, but I. My. My last. My last six months of this year have been transformed by me walking like a mofo and listening to audiobooks. And a lot of the audiobooks I listen to have been made into movies. Some of them have, at least. So that's what this month is. From book to screen.

Oh, okay. We're doing it. The adaptation again?

Yeah. So movies that are based off of literary works.

What if I have a novelization of the movie?

No, that's reverse order. I'm talking about. It existed as a piece of literature first. And I'm saying piece of literature because that could be a graphic novel or whatever. Right.

Oh, interesting.

Something that was written first and then adapted for the screen.

Okay.

And I am going with a book that I got through this last year and I thought was outstanding, and I haven't seen the movie yet, and it is the Road.

Oh, really?

Yes.

Oh, Lord.

Cormac McCarthy.

Yep. Cormac McCarthy. The book is just incredible.

So I think I've seen this a long time ago, but I don't remember.

That's what we're doing.

That'll be fun. I'm excited because there's a lot of options.

Lots of options. Lots and lots. Lots and lots of movies have been adapted from books and or written work. So it's. We're in the any movie category and it's. It might be a little bit too easy for us, but that's what it is.

It's got a lot of. It's broad, though, so it makes a lot of choices. So it's hard to pick.

Lots of choices, lots of choices. But. All right, we did it. We got through. DTFY2M6, Nick Cage, barely by the skin of her teeth got through. Now we're on to mem7books to screw, literature to screen, written word to the screen adaptations. And we're watching the road. I guess that leaves us now with nothing to do but to end this the way we end everything.

Oh, good.

The new trailer night is a magical

night

where I choose the cat that deserves a new life.

Going to the ball could get dangerous. Come on, Dance.

I judge a cat by its soul. I've got plenty of soul.

Spotlight and a drum roll, please, Milk.

It's party time.

The most deserving cat will be reborn

into another life

so they can be

who they've always dreamed of being.

What's your name? Cat got your tongue? Thanks for listening to Fumbling through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email [email protected] you can see our films to fumble before you tumble into the grave and other musings on letterbox that fumble through film. The through is T? Hru. You can also follow Keith on Instagram at kg3030lives and on Letterboxdg3030, Terry is on Letterboxdary2099. Derek is on Letterboxd at Derek the number nine and then the word nine. All original music is done by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. So hit him up for them bangers. Our new podcast logo is done by the delightful and talented Sanjay Vicky Nayak. You can find her on Instagram at Ike Stein. That's Einstein with a K in there. We'll see you next week. As we keep on fumbling.