Oops! All Wildcards: Superman (2025)

Gathered together from the cosmic reaches of the universe, here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners, are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled.

Keith. Tom Holland's character is this tech guy, believes that pigeons would make the ultimate spies. So he gives him this like drink that can turn him into a pigeon.

Terry. This all sounds very silly.

Derek. It's like the easiest transition for him ever. It's such a lateral move going from bald to bald. And the power twins, Zapp and Jordan, with their magical lemur snort dedicated Welcome back to Fumbling Their Way Through Movies, one forgotten gem at a time. This week we watch the 2025 return of Big Blue, Superman. This is Fumbling Through Films. Piece of shit alien! That is where you've always been wrong about me, Lex. I'm as human as anyone. I love, I, I get scared. I wake up every morning and despite not knowing what to do, I put one foot in front of the other and I try to make the best choices I can. I screw up all the time, but that is Being human, and that's my greatest strength. And someday, I hope, for the sake of the world, you understand that it's yours too. Oh, that's beautiful, but none of this matters, you patronizing clown.

The government gave me the authority to kill you.

If not today, then tomorrow. Hello and welcome to another one-of-a-kind, genre-defining, brand new episode of Fumbling Through Film, the only show that dares to bring together 3 dudes to talk about movies. Guaranteed. These aren't just any movies. Guaranteed. Because they're the ones we've either missed, overlooked, or feel are simply worth revisiting. So they're like 99% any movie.

That I can agree with.

Oh no, Terry, we're totally out of whack now.

Hold on, hold on. I'm looking at the legals.

Okay.

Yep.

That's fine. Yep. 99% of any movie. Yep.

We are just about any goddamn movie you could possibly think. Uh, my name is Derek and I'm a fumbler. That one sifting through the documents to make sure we're contractually obligated to properly say 99% any movie, but not just any movie, is the world's prime minister of fumbling and film and legalese, Keith.

Hey, hey, what's up KG? Fumbler extraordinaire, and I got 99 problems but a any movie ain't one. Any movie ain't one.

Oh man, really? Any movie ain't one? I can think of a few that might be a problem.

There are many problematic movies.

We watched looking looking at Terry's list. Yep.

We might get to cover some. Yeah.

Oh man, Dracula's dog.

Fingers crossed.

I've really— I regret some decisions early on.

I wasn't even thinking of what was on, on the current availability list.

There it is.

Oh boy, that other one that makes questionable decisions when our movie-watching fate is on the line is the one like Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry.

Hey everybody, it's me, the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. Um, I do make horrible decisions, but you know what wasn't a horrible decision? joining you guys here. Oh, the Hall of Fumbling.

In the Hall of Fumbling, the Fumbledome. Yeah, we should call it the Hall of Fumbling. We should have the out— the facade remade to look like whatever that building is in Cleveland that was the inspiration for the Hall of Justice from Super Friends.

Yes, yes, I agree with that. And we could be called the Fumbling Gang.

Yeah, yeah, work in progress.

Yeah, work in progress.

I like the game.

As we sit here, we talk about Superman. I, it, it didn't just dawn on me, but I made, I connected the dots finally that our intro is inspired by the Super Friends intro. So we are like the Justice Gang, kind of.

We are. Yeah, almost exactly.

I love listening to that intro every single week.

I like, yeah, I enjoy it as well.

And their music and their lemur snort.

He's always here.

Yeah.

He's such a good lemur. He never jumps. He never interrupts. He's just quiet. Doesn't make any noise.

Unlike if we talk about Monster Hunters, that seal that was in that one episode.

That seal would not shut up. That seal. Our trusty sidekick, the seal.

No, actually, just seal.

We had seal in that episode, this, this podcast with Popstar, but we had the seal. Not the Navy SEALs, but the seal.

Well, he was at one point in the Navy SEALs, but yeah, he was in the Navy, but not the Navy SEALs.

He was a SEAL in the Navy.

He was a Navy SEAL.

Exactly. Yeah.

And he, he was a talker, so we had to kind of give him the boot at some point.

But yeah. Well, we gotta do some talking before we give ourselves the boot.

Yeah. That is ironic that we kicked him out for talking and that's what we were recording.

That's all we're gonna do is we're gonna jibber jabber here for like the next 90 minutes. I'll cut it down to an hour 10, hopefully. And, uh, we didn't have time for a 4th voice to pop in here.

Jesus. That's why we—

especially not an inarticulate seal. God.

Yeah, he didn't speak English either. That's the problem. Or any language, human language.

Just barked.

Yeah. Oh, right.

Well, since we gotta do this talking and we gotta let people, uh, listen to us, we better tell them what they're in store for before they start listening. They've made it this far already.

True. Yeah, they've made it through 12 full months. They get the bonus 13.

This is month 13, week 2. Every month we watch movies, but not just any movies.

Uh-uh-uh.

One of us chooses a theme, a genre, a guiding light, some sort of beacon. I was trying to think of a Superman thing.

The Bat Signal.

A bad signal, uh, but that's a super signal. A bad—

a Jimmy Olsen super watch.

A supersonic whistle.

A supersonic— oh, that's a good one. Supersonic whistle. Jimmy John's. Jimmy Johnson.

Uh, Jimmy John's.

A Jimmy John's, uh, restaurant.

Jimmy John's Freaky Fast sandwich. Anyway, we do that so we know which movies to pick. We adhere to those. And then on the 4th week, we spin a wheel with some tangential movies. We watch one of those movies off the wheel. Out of the 3. Well, it occurred to us that after 12 months we had 2 unwatched movies every month.

It's true. What a waste.

What a waste.

Yeah.

So we decided for this wasted separate extra bonus month 13, weeks 49, 50, 51, 52 of the year, we're gonna put the remaining 24 unwatched wheel movies onto a super wheel and spin that super wheel and watch what it gives us. Last week we spun and we got one of my picks, Romancing the Stone, which makes it like I, I, I gotta be getting close to double digits.

Yeah, you probably have 75% of the picks that have been chosen.

Yes, which is, which is good for all of us.

You know what, you might have been saving us unknowingly from some things until, until Fast and the Fierce pops up this week.

I think, I think the wheel knew that Terry was doing something different at the beginning of the year than he, he was as we went further into it.

Yeah, I mean, we started off with Noah and then we went to Triple X. We've— it's a huge—

Triple X was great. I love it.

It was great. I really like Noah too, so much I almost bought a Noah coat.

I forgot about that. Yes, we need to get another.

Somebody else bought it though, so I couldn't— and I haven't been able to find one since. I look about once a month.

We're gonna have to sew one, make ourselves one.

We should. Okay, well anyway, last week was Romancing the Stone. This week we got a Keith pick and we got, uh, 2025's Superman. Uh, 2025's Superman. Now, before we talk about our viewing of 2025 Superman, before Keith takes us, you're taking us closer to 2025 Superman than ever before, right, Keith?

Mm-hmm.

Yes. I'm going to try.

Yeah. Before Keith deep dives into 2025 Superman, did any of us have any previous history, knowledge, or experience with 2025's Superman?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

I've seen it several times.

Yeah, me too.

I saw it enough that I almost didn't have to watch it in order to talk about today.

Yeah, but pride and guilt and knowing that betray us.

Yeah, break our hearts.

I saw this movie 4 times in theaters. Wow. The 4th time was on the day it was released on digital.

Oh wow.

I still went and saw it in the theaters, and then I went home and bought it on digital.

Nice. Yeah, you're like the super fan of Superman.

I really like this movie. I don't want to get too far ahead of, of the ending here. And then I also have the DVD here in front of me, not the Blu-ray, but I don't have a DVD player, so I have the DVD.

This is a movie I would like to have on Blu-ray or 4K or whatever.

Yeah, I'm thinking about buying it there too, just to have the physical media.

VHS.

Oh yeah, if they came out with one, I would probably get it.

LaserDisc, I'd get that.

Betamax, HD DVD, all of them. All of the defunct formats, I would probably purchase them.

My, uh, my stepmom's parents, they used to have a Beta— wow, uh, Beta player. Because anytime I stayed over there, if they were babysitting me at all or something like that, like, we'd get to go pick out movies. We're like, all right, we gotta get the ones from this section here, the The beta section.

Yeah, the beta section. Yeah.

It's like, you know, a quarter of the rest of the place of what was available.

I remember those days. I didn't have a beta player, but I remember I didn't know then, but I hear now because everybody's talking about it, that beta players were far superior to VHS as far as like, uh, quality and stuff like that of the video. But just like every other visual medium, the thing that made VHS the winner— pornography. The ease of recording and sharing.

Oh, I see.

And the lower cost of distribution and creation.

Okay. Yeah, makes sense.

It does.

Uh, yeah, Superman. I like it. I've seen it a few times. So take from that what you will.

Yep. I saw it twice on opening night. That's how much I enjoyed it.

Holy cow.

Well, I went and saw it in the morning as soon as I could, and then I took the kids in the evening.

Oh yeah, that's right.

Nice. Nice. Yeah.

All right. So is this safe to assume this is your favorite movie of the year?

Yeah, we'll get there, Keith.

Oh, it's okay. I'm just asking.

Yeah, it is though. It's not the best movie of the year, but it's my favorite movie of the year.

Okay.

All right, well, now that we've gotten through all that, I think it's time for Terry, you and I, we gotta relax. Ah, thank God, because Keith is driving this, this train right into the sun, right into Earth's yellow sun, so we're all like revitalized and powerful.

Yeah, yeah, luckily we're all Kryptonian here, so it should be fine.

It should be just fine. That's why I like this movie so much.

So yeah, you're biased. I really like Kryptonians.

I'm driving this right in the sun, but I've got like a— I've got like a corpse and some nuclear missiles on here as well.

Oh, what?

Gonna get us Nuclear Man. That's what Superman 4 is, that they throw the missiles into the sun and—

What happens? Boy, you're, you're asking me to—

Nuclear Man.

Uh, yeah, Superman rounds up all of the all the nuclear missiles on Earth.

Mm-hmm.

In like a giant net and he flings them into the sun. Yes, I do believe Lex has put a like cadaver.

Okay.

In, in one of them. And somehow, like, I, I think it, it spawns, uh, basically a guy called Nuclear Man. It was supposed to be, you know, like Superman, but Lex's personal You know, Superman to go—

was he like trying to dispose of a body, or was his whole plan the nukes were going to bring this corpse back?

No, that was his whole plan. He wanted something to be able to beat Superman.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, that's the way to do it.

Yeah, smart.

And the irony is Superman created it.

Oh yeah, that's gotta— that's like a psychological blow to Superman as well. Yes, it is.

And, and everyone that watched it.

That too. Yeah.

All right, well, Keith's gonna drive this train right into the sun with another patent-pending Fumbler's Deep Dive.

All right, let's, uh, see how deep we dive into this one. Um, it better be goddamn deep. Well, I don't think I went super, super deep because I think a little bit because of the fact that these are wheel movies.

Yeah.

And usually the deep dives lead us into a bunch of other We just talked about Henry Cavill a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, we talked about James Gunn. Like, all the Superman stuff's taken care of.

So, uh, this movie is PG-13, 2 hours and 9 minutes.

Uh-huh.

Uh, this son of a bitch came out July 11th, 2025, making it a, uh, Gen Alpha Cancer in the Year of the Snake.

Oh, we're in the Year of the Snake?

Oh, dope.

Interesting.

Uh, this movie, as we mentioned, was written, written and directed by James Gunn, uh, who we've, uh, talked about prior, uh, almost I think a couple times, including, uh, watching Slither as one of, uh, one of our movies.

Yes.

Yeah.

Uh, this had a production budget of $225 million. It made $354 million domestic, another $262 $1.5 billion international for $616.6 million total. What a flop. Adjusting for inflation, the 1978 Christopher Reeve—

Oh, I think you say this movie has now made a billion dollars, the inflation since June.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean, it could have pumped it up a little bit. Um, adjusting for inflation, the Richard Donner 1978 Superman— sorry, Christopher Reeve— made $618 million.

Oh, about right on par.

Pretty good.

Yeah. Based on domestic gross for 2025, this is actually the number 3 overall movie.

Nice.

Ever?

For 2025.

Oh, behind— oh, let me guess.

Sinners.

No, no, the kids movie.

Oh yeah, it's got to be something like rated PG.

What else? Barbie. What kid movies came out?

Barbie came out last year.

I don't even know.

Well, number 5 is Wicked for Good.

Okay, well, it's still in theaters now.

Number 4, Jurassic World: Rebirth.

Oh, okay, dinosaurs, sure.

Sinners was actually number 6.

Oh, man.

What was 2?

Lilo and Stitch.

Okay.

Oh, I thought you were— I thought you were gonna make more guesses once I gave you a few.

Oh, no, I'm out of guesses.

And number 1 was a Minecraft movie.

Oh, of course, of course.

It just showed me the, the top domestic when I was looking up, because I think international-wise, I think F1 is actually the, the number one, something like that, uh, movie that made a ton of, uh, a ton of money. And I— this is the second movie that we watched for 2025, uh, the first one being Sinners. We watched that as part of the dual roles Month that Terry had picked.

Yes. Which this also falls into. Yep.

And, uh, it technically does.

Yes.

And I will say, Derek, this is why I was asking if this was your favorite movie. Sinners is actually my favorite movie of, of the year. Um, F1 is actually number 2, and Superman's actually number 3 for me.

Do you want to know what the top 10 worldwide box office movies of the year so far are?

Sure, go ahead.

Number ten, Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning.

Okay, was all right.

Number nine, Superman. Okay. Number eight, F1: The Movie.

Oh, okay.

Number seven, How to Train Your Dragon.

Oh yes.

Number six, this one's gonna blow your mind. It only made what? It only made 134 domestic, 768 million worldwide. Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba. Yaiba the movie, Infinity Castle.

Wow, okay.

Number 5, Jurassic World Rebirth. Number 4, it's been in theaters for like 2 weeks, Zootopia 2.

Oh right, I forgot about that.

Number 3, a Minecraft movie. Number 2, Lilo and Stitch. Number 1, Nezha 2. Nezha 2, it's that Chinese animated movie that came to the United States and Did not do very well, but it made $1.9 billion worldwide.

Pretty good.

Not too shabby for box office.

Yeah, all, all pretty much good. You know, I actually didn't, um, I didn't dislike the Minecraft movie as much as I thought I would.

Yeah, it's fine.

It's not horrible. I mean, it wasn't great. Good even, I would say, maybe not, but watchable.

Yeah, I got, I got a couple more things that I want to see before the year is out, but nothing's gonna— I don't think it's gonna break into that top 3 for me. As far as my favorites for the, uh, for the year. Now, um, one of the issues with doing a deep dive on this is because so many people didn't do a whole lot of stuff outside of, uh, this movie. Okay, so, uh, this movie stars David, uh, Cornswet. as Superman slash Clark Kent. He's very limited. Um, he does some TV stuff. He has small roles in, uh, Twisters, uh, and Pearl, and also, uh, TV shows, uh, Lady in the Lake and House of Cards.

Hmm.

He has a small role in, in that as well.

Is Sweet Pearl about Ron Perlman?

I wish. Oh, that would be amazing. His biopic.

I don't know what it is.

It's a prequel to X, the movie.

Oh, that's right. I know. I know what it is now.

Yep. Uh, I tried to watch that X movie. I just couldn't get through it.

Hmm. Yeah, I didn't like as much as—

that was a very judging—

no, I agree. I didn't, I didn't hate it, but I, I mean, I watched it all.

Yeah, it says a lot about you.

I, I, I thought it was just okay.

Yeah. Uh, Ian. 2019, David had done an interview with Entertainment Weekly and said his dream role would be to play Superman. Oh wow.

Yeah, well, there you go. His dream came true.

And, and it really kind of, you know, shows kind of a bit of what James Gunn likes to do. He does like to find a lot of people who don't have like long resumes of stuff. Like even like, uh, for Guardians of the Galaxy, like Chris Pratt doesn't have a huge amount of He doesn't have any starring movie roles, but like he's got, you know, things, small stuff like Parks and Rec that he was on, but like Moneyball and things like just small things. And then, you know, he pulls them, plucks them, and puts them into a big movie. He's got a pretty good eye for stuff like this.

Mm-hmm.

I'll be honest, I like— I actually would have loved to have actually even seen like Henry Cavill in this one because I think it's just, it's a better, well-written story than what, uh, Snyder was doing. But I, I I think David Corenswet did very well in this movie.

Yeah.

Here's my biggest thing about anybody that— like, we're recording this days after Netflix is in the process of starting to purchase Warner Brothers, right? And there's people are like, oh, here, the Snyderverse is coming back. I'm sure James Gunn is shaking in his pants— boots.

Like, no, no, why?

Nobody cares. The Snyderverse is dead. It's been dead. He had 6 movies. Yeah, 6. That's a ton.

He had plenty of time to do stuff.

I think 6 with Superman in them, right? So there were a ton of movies in this universe and it's done. It's over with. It's gone. You enjoy the ones that existed. Here comes some new ones.

Just let it go.

Yeah, I think the main key thing there is like, he, you know, Snyder was always like Yeah, I don't really care about comics. I don't really read comics and stuff like that. Where James Gunn is like, yeah, I, I'm absorbing as much comic book stuff as possible and, and we'll make a movie that comic book fans like love when they go to see these movies. And I mean, it's such a big difference, which is one of the reasons I was like, man, like Henry Cavill actually didn't do a horrible job in those other movies. It'd been awesome to see him in one where it was really well written.

Superman movie, and ultimately those movies were fine. They were had moments of really good and moments of really bad. They were fine. Like whatever they're done with, we move on.

We do. Now I would like, I'd like, I would like to see him in a happier like Superman movie. But yeah, like you said, Derek, it's like man, you never know. It's never gonna happen. So might as well just never gonna happen.

And Henry Cavill's like a big nerd, so he's like he's got his Witcher, and then he's also working on a Warhammer movie. Yeah, because that's like his passion.

And in between, he is, uh, apparently, uh, doing Voltron.

Yeah, he— those are things he wants to do.

Like, Amazon Prime has got Voltron movie coming out, or Voltron series maybe, or a movie that's coming out that he is, uh, the lead in.

Okay.

And then what's that dude's name? The Manganiello, uh, whatever his name is.

Joe Manganiello.

Yeah, him. He's a big nerd too.

Oh, he plays D&D and stuff, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And but he was, uh, What Deathstroke or whatever?

Yes, he was Deathstroke for like one second.

Yeah, which which would have been the cool because I like him. I think he's pretty cool. Yeah, and then Vin Diesel's a big nerd, so you should get those three should get together.

Oh, he should have played Lex Luthor because he's already bald.

Oh God! No, no, no, no, no, no.

He should play Lex Luthor in the Snyderverse.

Yes, could you imagine him as Lex Luthor?

That actually would have probably.

I actually think that would have been kind of awesome. Like, real buff Lex Luthor.

Like, Senator, here's a jar of my piss.

With his low voice.

Yep. Yeah. Hey, Superman, I'm going to take you down. Superman, this is about family.

And my— and my piss in a jar.

Yeah.

I hope you don't drink that. Actually, I do.

Or I do hope you drink it because I'm a sadistic evil man.

I'm so evil.

I only live one quarter of a jar of urine at a time.

That is a fan casting. No one has talked about this, but I think—

No one has talked about it, and I don't know why.

I know it may be a little late now that we've already cast Lex Luthor for this universe we'd already declared dead, but for the next universe that DC does after this one's over When the Snyderverse gets re—

and yeah, and Vin Diesel's like in his 80s.

Yeah, when Netflix finally revamps the Snyderverse and Vin Diesel is finally like 80 years old. Yeah, that's the perfect time. Yeah, he's bald, so it's perfect.

Makes sense.

It's the only main thing.

I think it's like the easiest transition for him ever. It's such a lateral move going from bald to bald.

Oh, or did you say or Professor X?

He could be Professor X too.

Oh, and not or. and Professor X.

Why not dip his toes in both? He's already got some Marvel stuff going on.

Hey, Groot and Professor X and, uh, and Lex Luthor.

Could you imagine all 3 of those guys in a room?

No. And you'll never see it because they're the same person.

Come to me, my X-Men. Your family.

Her family. He always adds that part.

He had a little bit of Dracula in him there too, Keith. That was good.

I, I was trying not to— I was trying to make sure I didn't do like, uh, It seems like it's borderline maybe like, uh, Stallone.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I saw a picture of him recently and he looks terrible.

Oh really?

Yeah.

Is he bald?

Well, he was standing next to some terrible looking people too, so—

Oh, if he's bald, he maybe even get him in here too.

No, but he looked like some Botoxed freak, to be honest.

Oh, that's not good. Okay. Yeah.

Um, my favorite thing to know though about, uh, Mr. Corenswet is his maternal grandfather's Edward Packard. That's the creator of the Choose Your Own Adventure books.

Oh my goodness. Wow. Keith, it's like worlds colliding for you.

It is.

It is. I have a number of his books here at the house.

David Corenswet's?

No, his, uh, his—

From his personal collection? You stole them?

Yes. I, yeah, I went and stole them. No, I have a handful of Choose Your Own Adventure books here.

Wow.

My kids just, they never really got too much into them. That's, I mean, that's what I bought them for and they, yeah, they didn't quite take, but I still keep them around here just in case they might get, they might catch on eventually.

They didn't quite take. Sound like it's a body rejecting an organ.

We kind of, basically it is.

Yeah.

Yeah. A heart. That's how much it means to Keith.

All right. Now, uh, we mentioned, uh, some dream casting for Lex Luthor, but James Gunn settled in on Nicholas Hoult.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. To play the, one of the crazier versions of Lex Luthor, I think, that we've seen so far. Just overly maniacal.

Still just more, more maniacal than the piss drinking guy.

Yeah, I think so. And the piss drinking guy, I don't think had a real estate scam going on, which is one of the other things I was glad that the James Gunn fit into this. His— every Lex Luthor seems to be trying to do something with real estate and get a place for himself. Nicholas Hoult, he played Hank McCoy, AKA Beast.

Yes.

In X-Men: First Class, X-Men: Days of Future Past, X-Men: Apocalypse. And, uh, so the guy will still stick around even though they ran this thing into the ground. He stuck around for X-Men: Dark Phoenix as well.

Yeah, that's horrible.

Yeah, it's a really bad movie.

Yeah, so is the Apocalypse one. No one's. He starred opposite of Nick Cage as Dracula in Renfield.

Yes, he's Renfield.

Yeah, he also plays Thomas Hunter in Nosferatu.

Yeah, that's right. Which is basically the Renfield. Yeah, right.

I think so.

I think he's Nosferatu's like. Minion. I might be wrong, I don't know. It's been a while since I've seen them.

Uh, he played, uh, the, uh, chrome spray paint, uh, guy in, uh, Mad Max: Fury Road, constantly spraying his face.

Oh wow, yeah, the War Boys.

Yeah, yeah. And, uh, but most importantly, in one of his biggest key roles, 2024, he's the voice of Jon Arbuckle in The Garfield Movie.

Oh.

Is he really?

Why?

Opposite Chris Pratt, the previously—

yeah, Chris Pratt was Garfield. Yeah, I did not see that.

I've seen it too many times.

Oh God, every Monday you watch it?

No, Penelope was really into that movie for a hot minute. Oh, we've talked about this movie. I don't know if it was on, on mic or not, but they— it's full of product placement. I've never seen a movie that had so much product placement in. Like, Garfield goes to walmart.com to buy a recliner. Like, I'm not even joking. They go to Olive Garden to get breadsticks. And like, I'm not even joking.

Yeah, that's a match made in heaven, Garfield and Olive Garden, because lasagna.

Yeah, all you can eat pasta day.

But there's so much product placement in an animated movie, it was unreal.

Does he drink like a Pepsi at some point, like point the can at the camera?

I almost want to say he drinks something like that, like a Monster. It's not a Monster because that was in Running Man, but stuff like that. Yeah.

Okay, that's interesting.

A lot of product placement in this movie, Superman as well, but it's all fictitious stuff. Like, yes, Ginger's Coffee Shop and with Big Belly Burger.

Big Belly Burger, yeah. And the Mighty Crab Joys, of course.

And, uh, uh, with Lord Industries.

Mm-hmm.

And Lord Tech.

Yeah, yeah, Lord Tech. Oh, Stag Industries and Lord Tech and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Yeah.

Um, which again is one of those things like, at like, James Gunn just shoves so many Easter eggs into, into this thing, it's, it's kind of crazy. Um, Nicholas Hoult, he did audition for, uh, Clark Kent Superman role.

Oh.

Uh, before losing out on that, but you know, it's still got Nice second place there, I think. And at one point in time, he was actually, uh, back in, uh, you know, whenever they decided to film it, he was actually up for the Bruce Wayne Batman role in The Batman.

Hmm, interesting.

I'm glad he's Lex Luthor and not—

he's really good.

Yeah, I think he really is. Uh, he does a great job with this version of, of Lex and just how over the top he is and Like that opening clip that we played of him just like yelling at him like, you stupid alien.

Mm-hmm.

That time he calls him a Martian, he goes, no, no, nope, not a Martian, I'm Kryptonian. It's different things like that. But he's always just, uh, and oh, the, the thing I didn't catch, I think, uh, like when I saw in the theater was when Clark goes and he's like, where's the dog? He's like, I don't know what. And then he stands up and he like goes to take a sip of the mug, like you know, kind of comes up with a dog sitting in the mug. Yeah, stupid, stupid, uh, cape on a dog. I, I, I hadn't caught that the, uh, the first time around.

Yeah.

Uh, I guess probably the 3rd biggest character in this movie is Rachel Bronson, plays Lois Lane.

Mhm.

Um, she actually played, uh, Rachel, uh, Posner in 19 episodes of House of Cards. So I'm guessing that her and David Corn Sweat had cross paths there.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Uh, she's best known as the titular Miss Maisel in The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Correct.

Which I've heard good things about.

It's a very good show. Yeah.

Yeah, I just never, never got around to it. It's not— there's not that many seasons of it.

It's worth the watch, 100% guaranteed.

I could probably find some time to squeeze that in here someplace.

Yeah.

But in 2019, she voices a character named Wendy in the animated film Spies in Disguise.

Oh, like the Spy vs. Spy thing?

No, this is when the world's best spy is turned into a pigeon.

What?

He must rely on his nerdy tech officer to save the world. It's an animated movie. Will Smith and Tom Holland.

Yeah. What? This is real?

Yeah.

And, and you learn about cloacas.

He turns into a pigeon? Yes.

Okay.

All right.

Because pigeons are the ultimate spies.

Oh, he wants to be a pigeon?

No, the guy who gives him— Tom Holland's character is this tech guy, believes that pigeons would make the ultimate spies. So he gives him this drink that can turn him into a pigeon.

Oh, he wants to be a pigeon?

No. Yeah. So then he has to—

This movie doesn't make sense at all.

He's a pigeon.

No.

He gets turned into a pigeon. Yes. He wants to be a pigeon? No. What's the point?

Yeah, he, um, that's a good point.

Yeah.

And so they just— then there's all like him just adjusting to being a pigeon and all this other stuff.

And yeah, again, uh, this all sounds very silly. I don't know.

It's actually— it's not— it's actually not— it's not awful.

Oh, it's very serious.

It's a very serious dramatic film.

Yeah, it's not— it's not as bad as Uh, as you would, uh, that probably really sucks, but I just—

some funny parts compared to The Emoji Movie or the Angry Birds Movie. Where does it land? Oh, it's better.

It's better than that.

It's better. I've never—

well, I've never seen The Emoji Movie. I never will. But I've seen the Angry Birds.

Oh, wait, wait till my first month comes up. You gotta pick a movie you said never watched and never will.

We're all gonna be screwed when you do that. There's not much I won't watch, honestly.

The Emoji Movie. We're watching Green Lantern.

Yeah, or Titanic. One of the two.

Oh God, no, I don't want to ever watch that.

Too bad I'm gonna pick boat movies. Not that many.

No, there aren't.

I'm sure, I'm sure there's probably a lot.

There's no more than 5 though.

Yeah, so those are the 3 main, uh, characters that we have in this, and James Gunn does a really great job of stuffing this with all of his people as well. Of course, uh, from Michael Rooker, uh, um, plays Mantis in Guardians of the Galaxy. She's another one of the voices of the—

oh, I didn't know that—

of, uh, one of the robots.

One of the robots.

Yeah.

Um, Bradley Cooper is in there as Dorel. Uh, Stephen Blackheart Uh, is in there as Sidney, uh, Hampson.

That's the big glasses guy, right?

Yes. Yeah. And, um, that's another one. I guess he's been in almost all of his movies.

Yeah, he's like his best friend.

Yeah. Um, he put his brother in, in this movie as well.

Maxwell Lord.

Yeah. Yep. He's also got Nathan Fillion as Guy Gardner in here.

Yes. Yes.

Uh, he's got, uh, John Cena in here as, uh, Peacemaker again. Yeah. And again, also, I mean, obviously he's pulling in some of those people from the Suicide Squad movie that he did, and also, um, the Peacemaker TV show as well, like pulling some of those characters in.

Yep. I think Tim Meadows is going to be in the Superman sequel.

Yeah, he is.

I hope so.

That same character. Yeah, the bird blindness guy.

Yes. Okay. Yeah, I'm glad for that.

Um, there's a whole lot of, of other people in it. Michael Ian Black is in this. Wendell Pierce plays Perry White. Um, we mentioned, uh, Skyler, uh, Gusando when we talked about Dewey Cox because, uh, he plays Jimmy Olsen.

Mm-hmm.

In this movie, uh, he shows up there real at the end. What, what I did really like the most about this is, again, this is, I think, the difference between the Snyderverse ones and the stuff that James Gunn is working on, is like all like the little stuff And I, and I noticed this in watching the movie the first time, and then I had to go on a little bit of a deep dive. Like, all those people that Lex Luthor puts into his little control center thing that they have, they're all characters from either the other movies or the comics.

Mm-hmm.

Um, obviously they're never all like together as like one big group in those, but like, um, he has Eve Teschmacher and Otis Byrde, who are both from the Richard Donner movies. Uh, there's Dean and Desmond Farr, who are Tiger Man in the comics.

Hmm.

Uh, Cheryl Kimble, who originated in— I guess DC did a Superman/Aliens crossover. She's the head of LexCorp's space division in that. There's Amanda McCoy, who is the LexCorp scientist who figured out that Clark Kent and Superman were the same person. There's another guy, Larry Chin, and Chin is turned into the Combator by Lex, hoping to prove the world that—

Who?

The Combator. C-O-M-B-A-T-O-R.

Combator.

Yeah.

Okay.

Trying to show that superhumans are causing maximum collateral damage and stuff like that. So you have all these different, just really deep dive things that he puts into Into the movies.

Yeah, that was goddamn close.

That was deep.

We got to the control center.

Yeah, I mean, there's a handful of other people I kind of wanted to talk about, but like, they don't— there's just not a lot besides like what they did in this movie. We'll talk about it as we talk about the movies.

Yeah, sure. We should probably do that then. We should probably get, get to stepping on talking about—

hit that stinger.

Stinger's already been hit, my friend.

Hit that stinger. Stinger's been stung.

We are moving on.

Every time we say you have to hit it.

It's like gonna be in there like 6 times now.

Hit that stinger. Yeah.

Oh, again, Terry. And I could just edit that out, but I won't now.

Oh, oh boy.

All right, everyone, this episode's gonna be too long because it's all these stingers.

That's good.

All right, well, let's do it. Let's talk about my favorite movie of 2025.

Yes, we should.

It's not the best movie of 2025, but I said it's my 3rd favorite movie. Derek says his favorite. Terry, is this your— is this your favorite movie?

Is this my favorite? Is on my list of favorite movies of 2025, but I don't think it's my favorite movie of 2025.

Terry's not into ranking, he just likes to have a big chunk of things.

That's— I rank some things, but yeah, it's hard for me to rank. Like, these are all great movies on my best of 2025.

We know, I got spreadsheets and stuff like that.

I would probably say My honestly, my favorite's probably like Bring Her Back. I really like that. I really like that one. That'd probably be my favorite. Or they're also close. I don't know who could say. I like Sinners a lot too. I think Bring Her Back's probably the best movie so far I've seen.

I think the best movie I've seen is One Battle After Another.

Oh, I haven't seen that yet.

That movie is really good. But this is my favorite though.

Yeah. This is what's I know when— I don't know. So James Gunn took over the DC thing, right? And, um, I feel like there was— I— at least in my friend group, there was some caution about this. Like, oh God, they're worried that he makes this same movie over and over and over again. Guardians of the Galaxy, Suicide Squad. I'm like, yeah, they're both very similar. It's him, James Gunn. He's got a very specific style.

Those—

what's funny is those are very similar movies, and you could break them down because, yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy, it's this group of ragtag group. Suicide Squad's a ragtag group. Guardians of the Galaxy has a talking tree that only says like 3 words.

Yes.

Suicide Squad has a giant talking shark that only says like 3 words.

Yes, it is similar. But to be fair, Suicide Squad and Guardians of the Galaxy aren't that different of like groups in the, you know, like they're different in the comics obviously, but like it's the same like ragtag, like, you know, they have to work together.

Conceptually very similar.

Yes. And so I was like, well, we haven't really seen him try to do anything different or being offered to do anything different.

And I'm, you know, this is like his thing of like, all right, well, I've done the group thing.

Yeah. And he still kind of does it here, but not in a big way.

Not the same way.

Yeah. Yeah. No, what I like about him is, yeah, he's a big comic guy and he embraces the comic bookiness of things and he really likes these weird characters. So that's why he's perfect for something like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Suicide Squad. Yeah.

He likes the obscure, weird kind of goofy characters and he like can put some heart and soul into them and make people like him, which I— because I already like them, but it's nice to see, you know, them on the screen and being appreciated. But now we're getting to see Superman, which is one of the most popular characters of all time, the granddaddy of them all. Yeah, and he does a great job, and it's apparently like a dream project for him. He's always wanted to do this movie, you know. So I think he nailed it. I really do.

Oh yeah, for sure, 100%.

And he's— and he does it in a way where he you know, he opens up like not just, hey, this is the one movie we're doing here, but I'm— let me reintroduce to you the, the DC Cinematic Universe, you know.

Yeah.

And covers it all like within like the first 30 seconds of the movie with like just, hey, this is when metahumans showed up, and here's when Superman shows up, and hey, by the way, Superman's here. And I like the fact that it's like, you know, you see something in the trailer, you're like, ooh, it's a big important part. Well, that was like the opening 2 minutes of the film.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, so it wasn't giving away, uh, too much with that. I also like the fact that he like goes out and does things that like the other Superman movies never bothered to do. The whole scene with him and Lois talking about like whether he was right for interfering in the— and stopping the war.

Mm-hmm.

I love the fact that they actually addressed that because they don't do that in any of the other ones. And it's like, hey, did you check with anybody to make sure this is an okay thing to do? And he's like, I wasn't about anybody. It's what I thought was right to do.

Mm-hmm. Because people were going to die. That's, that's my favorite part of this whole movie when he gets angry. People are going to die, damn it. I mean, this is what I'm supposed to do.

And everyone's like, well, you know, you interfered and blah, blah, blah. Like, they, do they just assume he lives in America all the time?

Like, it's— He is an American icon. He's from Kansas.

He's got the red and blue, very American colors. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'd really love to see a— let's see a live-action version of Red Son.

Mm-hmm.

Where he lands in Russia instead. I think that'd be kind of fun to see at some point.

It's a really good book for sure.

Yeah.

James Gunn is big into Elseworlds.

It could happen.

It could. Well, let's back up like just a little bit because James Gunn. does do something in this movie that a lot of superhero movies don't do.

Oh yes.

Is they— you just live in a world that already exists and we don't have to go through movie after movie after movie of origins.

Thank God. Yes.

Thank God, right? Like, there's like— there's a level of like, you get it, you know who Superman is. And there's also a level of You don't need to see him being sent from his home planet. And they kind of wrap that up real neatly in like 30 seconds of exposition from a robot, right? And it's, it's cool. I like— I can dig that.

Yeah, it's so smooth. It doesn't feel like— yeah, there's no need to see it over and over again. I'm, I'm— and honestly, in these Superman movies, that's always been my least favorite part, is the Krypton stuff. I'm like, All right, I know we have to get through this for 30 minutes while, you know, it gets sent to Earth or whatever. Like, we gotta learn about the lore of Krypton or something. It's like, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Like, it does to Superman, you know, like, and you can hint at it, but you don't need to— like, this isn't a movie about Jor-El and all this stuff. We can just— let's get him to Earth and like he can learn about himself there, you know? Yeah, that's, that's important.

It's such an, an un— people aren't clamoring for it so much so that they made a TV show about Krypton.

Oh God, yeah.

That was supposed to be really good, but nobody watched it. Nobody, nobody cared.

I just don't care about it at all. Yeah, like, it's very tangentially— give me some hints and pieces, but I don't want like a full focus on it.

Yeah, and the most interesting Krypton was Zack Snyder's Krypton because it was kind of like this weird, almost dystopian Pandora from Avatar.

Yes, that like big old bats they're riding around on.

Yeah.

That's just weird. Yeah, they have like guns and stuff.

I forgot all about that.

Yeah, that's— they spend like 30 minutes there.

Long time. It's— yeah, it is. It's like they, they're like, uh, it's almost like a—

like a—

if you haven't watched like a show in a while, or like a new season starts on a show and they give you like that quick little recap.

Yep.

At the beginning, that's quickly like— and they do it like, oh, uh, let's play that, let's play that clip for him. He finds it soothing. And it's—

yeah.

It's from when he first— and they just—

He likes it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gary is great, uh, and he gives all this like quick background stuff, and they do it in such a nice easy manner that you're like, okay, if you're— if you have no idea about Superman coming from Krypton, okay, then you're gonna have to go do some research on your—

on your own.

But most people know the story, and so—

But even if you don't, you don't have to because it's Integrated into the story and the conversation in a way that isn't spoon-feeding it to you or force-feeding it to you, right? It is kind of spoon-feeding it to you. You get the robots.

Yeah.

And you get the Martians.

It's like a robot.

Kryptonian, actually. And he talks about how he's an alien. He's never been afraid of that. You know, there's all those things. They're just part of the story instead of like, here we go with this linear tale of this happened and this happened and this happened and this happened.

Now here's Superman as a kid.

And if you really feel like you need to go learn some more about it, there's plenty of things to go read about. But we give you the, the Cliff Notes version that you should be well, well on your way of understanding what's going on.

But even— yeah, exactly. Even if you came in with blank slate, you would still get the idea. You would get the gist 100%.

It's not just with Superman, it's with all these other superheroes in the universe. You don't need to know Green Lantern's got a magical ring and blah blah blah. You know, like you don't need to where that comes from. He's just there. And so same with Hot Girl, same with Mr. Trivik. They're just there. They don't need. You don't need to explain everything. I don't think they tell us what their powers are in the movie. You know, you just watch them.

They do it. Even then though, right, Terry? They're like, "Here's the Justice Gang. They're funded by Maxwell Lord." Blah blah blah. And then later on, it's like, "If you're here to rule the world, you're the exact reason the Guardians gave me this ring to protect this Earth." Yes. It's all told. in the story in a way that isn't bludgeoning you over the head.

Yes, it's all subtle. It's just enough information. They don't over-explain anything, which is great.

Yes, yes, love it. I love it. The world exists and has been lived in, and it's just— it's Superman.

Because you don't— you're right, you don't see that ever with all the Marvel movies that you get. You always have to see their origin story, every single— I think almost every Marvel movie. Have you had any—

Spider-Man's the only one that they didn't bother in the, the current—

oh, true. So that might be the only way.

Did they not— he didn't get bit, or was he already Spider-Man?

He's, he's already— when Tony finds him in Civil War, he's already Spider-Man doing his thing.

Yeah, he could.

So they, they never go— they never go back.

Oh, that's right. He was like in the newspapers or something like that.

Yeah.

And so like, you know, when he's gonna introduce, uh, Batman and Robin and the Brave and the Bold type stuff, he's gonna either skip Off, he's gonna skip past all the Batman origin stuff, or he's gonna do the same thing.

And like, well, he's already said there's things we don't ever need to see again: Superman coming from Krypton, Spider-Man getting bit by spider, and Batman's parents getting shot.

Yeah, but he'll have somebody probably whoever's playing like Alfred will probably be like, "Oh, it's the anniversary of that." Blah blah blah. It'll give you a quick rundown, and away we go again.

It's part of the story to help explain the character. Yeah, but you're right. Every Marvel movie is Tony Stark built this in a cave with a hunk of scrap, a pile of scraps, right? Every movie has that in Marvel, right? The very first one always has that.

And the sequels have, hey, let's give you your villain's origin story.

Yes. And I, I don't want to do Marvel versus DC, but all— most of the Marvel movies are the superhero and their villain is a superhero with the same powers but just nefarious, right?

Yes, it is very— it's very annoying that they do that, especially when like, like Iron Man is really great, but then in Iron Man 2, he basically is taking on some other versions of the Iron Man, and then he has to have all of his Iron Man suits come around and fight somebody in the third one, you're like, Jesus, dude, like this.

And in the third one, they, um, they give you an almost other villain and then they pull the rug out from underneath you and it's a joke, right? It was terrible. God, I hated that movie.

Yeah, that's absolutely awful.

Yeah.

But yeah, we're not talking about those movies. We're talking about Superman in a world— he lives in a world that already exists with superheroes and you just go, cool.

Yep. That's all you need to know. You don't need to know much more than that. Yeah. Which is nice. Very economic.

And, you know, and, and, you know, like, he— like, when she goes to talk to the, the Justice Gang, and like, it's obvious that he's hung out and talked to them before and like probably teamed up with them before. Like, when— yep, what he's—

what—

when, when him and Lois are, you know, they're drinking hot cocoa and they're talking—

my favorite scene in the whole movie.

Do you need to go out there and help them? Exactly.

No, they got it. They're having this serious conversation and in the background there's the giant green baseball bat smacking this monster in the head and you can hear the sound of it hitting it and I just love it. I love it so much.

And at the end I think like the thing basically erupts and—

Yeah, just spewing stuff all over the place.

Which kind of looks a little like almost like fireworks and stuff in the background too as they're having that, that conversation and everything. And so there's this whole, like, again, he doesn't have to explain how Superman knows these people. They know.

Mm-hmm.

And they know that he's Clark Kent as well, and all this other stuff. Lois is able to go to them, and we're all— also, we're working with a whole nother group here who we don't have to give that background on again.

Mm-hmm.

We can sum it up in just a few quick sentences and, and, and move on to stuff like, probably like you said, that one scene was your favorite. Mine is Mr. Terrific doing his thing. Yes. Uh, there on the beach, you know, reminds me of, um, Quicksilver in the one, uh, X-Men movie.

Oh yeah, his future past. Yep.

Yeah, when he's, you know, they really kind of showcase him doing stuff there. It reminded me a lot of that. And he's just— and you get a lot of it is not even like seeing Mr. Terrific do stuff himself. It's slow, it's looking like Like just like wide-eyed of like what the? Like is I think they even go oh yeah it's no it's it's the nerdy guy.

Yeah he's the smart one.

It's just it's just the smart one.

Yeah just the smart one.

Like which is great that at the end he's like man I'm motherfucking Mr. Terrific.

No he does not drop the F word Keith.

What's he say?

Goddamn Mr. Terrific.

Goddamn Mr.

Yes yeah God I'm motherfucking Mr.

Terrific. Superman movie.

Yeah.

Well, it was PG-13.

You could have dropped one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's probably, uh, he, he's probably my favorite character in the—

Mr. Terrific? Sure, he's awesome.

Yeah, he's great. I'm looking for him, you know, to have him be in, in more things in the future and stuff like that.

I think they're supposed to do a spin-off show.

Oh, really?

Yeah, I think— I know they're doing a Jimmy Olsen one.

Oh, well, Jimmy Olsen dating show?

No, it's like a Jimmy Olsen crime reporter detective thing. But I think Mr. Triffitt, because of how popular he was after this movie came out, they're like, well, yeah, as well.

I'd love that. I agree.

Yeah, and that dude deserves it. I can't think of what his name is actor-wise, but he played, uh, Darwin. Darwin in, in First Class.

The most frustrating thing of that whole movie.

Uh, the guy who's supposed to adapt so he can never be killed. Gets drowned or whatever.

Killed immediately. No, he just gets killed. He just gets killed.

Yeah, but then they make him like eat like an explosion or something like that.

I can't remember what it was.

They—

yeah, he like—

they—

yeah, he does get quote unquote drowned. They like— he puts his head in a fish tank to show that he won't die because he grows gills.

Yeah.

And then yeah, Sebastian Shaw shows up and like spits energy into his face or something and he—

oh yeah, yeah, that's right. I forgot.

He like starts adapting and he just turns to stone and dies. I'm like, no. I thought like I was waiting the whole movie for him to come back because I was like, well, he can't be dead. That's his whole thing. And then it's like, oh no, I guess he's dead.

I forgot about that. Kevin Bacon compresses like all his energy from an explosion into a little ball and like puts it inside of him or something.

It's like, wow, I guess he can adapt to that, really.

But yeah, he's, he's, he's great in this. He's, uh, I, I just like anytime anybody questions him as well. I like when, uh, like when they first get to the— so after he does that whole thing there on the beach and they walk in, he's like That dude actually did create a pocket universe.

Yes. You know, it was in that moment I realized that Mr. Terrific is like the good analog for Lex Luthor. Like, he's the exact same as Lex Luthor, just on the good side.

Mhm.

Yeah, like the same crazy knowledge and like understanding of all that stuff. Like, like, they're, they're polar opposites as far as like that goes. as far as like side of the lawful spectrum, but similar.

Because doesn't he call him like, like an idiot or something? That idiot did create him.

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. And that's why you don't create a pocket universe. I love that.

It's like, oh, of course.

Yeah, the G.I. Joe, uh, moment there. And that's why you don't create a pocket universe.

Now kids, have we learned anything today about pocket universes? Yes.

The pocket universe also is, is awesome because it's like, it really shows like a whole extra layer to Lex's insanity. Like, he's putting reporters who he didn't like, he's putting ex-girlfriends in there.

He's petty. He's very petty.

Yeah, he's, he's very unhinged in that moment. Do you really like see the like full like scope? Like, because at first you could kind of see almost just a little bit, you know, we're like, okay, well, he's scared of Superman because he's an alien. You know, that's not necessarily a good thing to be scared of for a reason. But he's a very powerful guy and nobody's— he doesn't answer anybody, blah blah blah. But then you like see that, you're like, oh well, Lex Luthor is insane.

Like, yeah, he's crazy insane and petty. And yeah, like his pettiness fuels his insanity. He just hates Superman because he gets all the attention while Lex Luthor, he should be getting the attention.

Lex Luthor should be like, you know, should be the greatest man on Earth, and instead this alien is Not even my spotlight.

But yeah, they call him Superman.

He's not even a man. Yeah, he's an it. Yeah, I love Lex Luthor in this movie. He's such a horrible jerk. Yeah, like, uh, he's played— the way he's played, the acting is amazing. The character's written so well. Yeah, he's a great villain for Superman.

Yes, for sure. One of my favorite shots of him is when he's watching Superman get the crap beat out of him and just kind of watch it with this like Slack-jawed grin. Yeah, he's like staring down. It's like a it's like a camera angle that's kind of look looking up at him, but he's got this like grin and his mouth's just open.

So smug.

Yeah, and I God, I love it. He's just like, look what I'm doing.

The like that and the the one a one a where he's like punching in the air like as the guy does it.

Yeah, you're just spamming button spamming Street Fighter moves on him.

Yep, and I love that the people around him are like basically like worship the ground he walks onto. Yeah, I love that whole vibe where like because he he's a tech genie, you know, like it's. kind of that tech genius kind of thing where he's like, yep, all these people work for him, they just do whatever he says and they love it, you know. Yeah, he's— he could never do any wrong.

And so they're basically just celebrating his every move and stuff because he's a genius. But unlike our real-world tech bro geniuses, they're not quite this— like, this, this guy, he's on their level.

Yeah, right. He actually can, yeah, do some crazy stuff.

He cloned Superman because he could. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which I'm, I'm hoping that, uh, maybe that comes back again at some point in time. Uh, after he gets pulled into that black hole, come back as Bizarro.

That's what everybody wants to have happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, I mean, if they, I mean, if you're, if you're going to continue to build out and build out sequels and stuff, I mean, then also if he has, if he has cloned him, then that's, you know, that also is going to eventually lead to being able to have like Superboy.

Mm-hmm.

Which then, you know, if you're doing that right and you're doing, and you're bringing in, you know, Batman and Robin and stuff like that, that's the point. Like, it, that gives you a chance to eventually, if you, if you are gonna continue to expand out, that does help lead into like things like the Titans and stuff like that.

Could.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, that, that should be there. But also that I kind of thought about that, that like, you know, that somebody's gonna come back out of, uh, out of a black hole. You know, or you know, it kind of reminded me of like when, um, uh, in, uh, Superman 2 when they send, you know, Zod and those guys to the, the Phantom Zone.

Phantom Zone, yeah.

Kind of same vibe where like, oh, maybe eventually he's gonna figure out a way to come back. Maybe, uh, it'd be as a Bizarro Superman.

Remember, he's not very smart though.

No, he's not. No.

And then, you know, this movie does what— and I want to do the Marvel versus DC thing again. Either, but a lot of superhero movies, even not just Marvel, but leading up to this one, the main villain isn't killed at the end.

No, which is nice, so he can be he can return in other movies. Yes, yes, I want him to because he's great.

Yeah, he's Lex Luthor. He's got to be around.

But you know, we did mention Superman does fight somebody with his exact same power set in this movie.

So yeah, a clone of himself, but it's a is used as a pawn.

Of yeah, he's a tool for Lex Luthor.

Yeah, it's a little different, a little bit, but similar.

You're right.

But I wouldn't consider Ultraman the villain in this movie.

No, no, no, no.

He's just a henchman.

He he has one of the funniest moments in this entire movie too. Ultraman does when Lex Luthor is doing his slide presentation for his. What are they called? Earth Force One or whatever. And he looks over at Ultraman, the most powerful being on Earth, is there to like turn on the lights and turn off the lights.

Yes, yes, I laughed at that as well because I did not notice that the original time, or I just didn't take it in.

Tackled at it in the theater. Love it. I don't, I don't see anybody talk about that very much. I just love that he's just dirty. He turns the lights when he's, when he's told to. The most powerful being on Earth.

Yep, yep, that is funny. Yeah, and that's just what Lex would want him to do. Yeah, that's like, of course that's his job.

Yeah, it's a flex by Lex because he's got the most powerful being on Earth there to just to turn on the lights.

Yes.

And then when he finds What's-Her-Name in the, in the closet, he's just sitting there staring out the window.

He's not paying attention.

No, yeah, he's just sitting there staring out the window.

Boy, he comes out of the armor for, uh, pretending to be the Hammer. He's like, uh, yeah, I love how he was like, you did so good. Yeah, like, it's like, you know, you're talking to this guy.

Ultraman's back. Yeah, you did so good.

Yeah, it's like a puppy dog or something. Yeah.

Uh, speaking of puppy dogs, I— the only thing I didn't like about Krypto was the type of dog they used. For a guy who does follow a lot of the comic book stuff, I found it weird that James Gunn went with that more shaggy type dog instead of the one cartoon that had The Rock voicing him. But also in other comic books and stuff like that, there's—

Forgot about that. Super Pets.

Yeah. There's also—

I'm going to tease Black Adam.

Yes, that's actually very funny. But also then, like, um, you know, in a bunch of other comic books, so like there's actually, you know, there's an actual version of him. I've never seen, uh, one where it's more like this like shaggy playful puppy type thing. I think even in, um, Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, which is— as we eventually find out that it's not Superman's dog, uh, Supergirl's like Yeah, I like Crypto in this.

I think he's funny. I think he's a little more ornery than most other versions of Crypto. Like, he's very misbehaving, but, um, very charming in that way. I think— isn't— I think they modeled that dog after James Gunn's actual dog.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's why I think they— that's why they, they chose that. But I'm like, I, I do like, like, when he first— like, he's, he's there, he's getting ready to leave to go back and fight the Hammer Brigade, and he just looks around, he's like, what the hell?

What the hey, dude? Um, yeah.

Oh, there's— that's another ridiculous, like, like evil thing that Lex does too. How do you— what do you do with a super dog? You beam super squirrels into his brain.

Yeah, he's just chasing super squirrels constantly. Yeah, Lex is super evil, super evil. And so much so, the midpoint is him shooting the falafel vendor in the head because he thinks Superman cares about him. Like, Superman does, But he's just another person. He thinks— Lex is so— doesn't get, like, being nice to people that he assumes because Superman was nice to a person and that person was like Superman, that they were like close friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, that's something like, well, this will be a— this will be a real punch in the gut. Like, it is because he doesn't want to see him get killed. You ate—

I gave you falafel one time. You said you liked it.

Let me help you. Exactly. That was it.

Yeah, that's a really like dark moment of the movie too. Like, I was surprised. Very dark moment went there, but I really liked it as like a character moment for Lex and for Superman and everybody. Like, man, yeah, like that. There are some points in— because this movie, I like the tone of this movie. It's very like, um, uplifting, positive, like kind of. But it gets into some like kind of nitty-gritty stuff, like should Superman interfere with politics or like international war, blah blah blah, you know. Yeah. And then there's like, yeah, Lex shooting people in the head in front of him. Like, it kind of goes into some places, even while it balances that very well between like kind of Superman's like, aw shucks kind of attitude versus like, yeah, like some crazy real-world issues and stuff.

Yeah, it does, 100%.

Some might say it's a little punk rock, right?

Yeah, well, it's, it's the ultimate punk rock, but it isn't afraid to do those things. where some— it does everything short of saying, oh, this is the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, right? Like, it does everything short of saying it, but it is that, right?

Yeah.

Or if it's not that, it's done in such a way where you can easily map it to that and not be wrong, right? Like, it's so almost one-to-one, but like, those are very serious, real issues. And I like that Superman is on the side of right in those things, which he should be, as always.

Right? I agree. Yeah. It's, uh, it's like, it's not shying away from real-world issues.

And it's not afraid. It's not afraid to be comic booky. It's not afraid to touch on things that mean something. And it's not afraid to say something. And James Gunn isn't real good at subtext. He's very on the sleeve with everything. And I don't mind it in these sorts of movies. It's fine. It needs to be overt and in your face and say what it needs to say. Because otherwise people, even this movie, people will be like, it literally tells you that it was not a fake transmission. Like the message from his parents.

Yes.

Like they say it like 5 times.

Yeah, they have to really emphasize it. They checked it. Scientists have checked this.

Yeah, researchers themselves says nope, it's real.

Mr. Triffic, you know, I checked. It's not—

that's, that's the other key part is that Mr. Triffic comes and goes, yeah, no, no, that's— it's legit.

The good analog of Lex Luthor says nope, there's no way. It's the, it's the real thing. And people still, not in the movie but in the real world, like, it's got to be a fake, right? No, nope. There's zero room for wiggle there. They literally tell you 4 or 5 times it's the real deal.

I, I like that. Like, when Mr. Terrific does it also, he's like, he goes, yeah, those guys don't mess around. Like, don't mess up. That's— if they say it's legit, it's legit.

It's legit. But yeah, like, those, those things, like, kind— being kind to one another and doing what's right and all stuff, there's no— it's no, like, you gotta, like, sift through everything to get to that. It's on the surface. I think a movie like this, it needs to be on the surface.

Yeah, it makes sense for Superman. He's supposed to be the symbol of doing the right thing and everything. Yeah, it makes sense to make him do the right thing.

Yeah.

Yep. People are gonna die. That's his whole motive. His credo is to, to stop that from happening.

He doesn't even care, like, politically. Like, yeah, he's just like, I just stopped the war because I didn't want people to get hurt.

Like, yeah, he's the same guy that'll swoop out to save a squirrel from getting squished. He blows the dog out of the way. Yes, it's all those things, right? He cares about people and life and he protects it.

You see him save a ton of people in this movie too, which is really nice. Yes, you don't see that in a lot of superhero movies, I feel like, honestly. Like, yeah, it feels like they've really made saving of people—

usually it's just the fighting And then like in Man of Steel, it's like, oh, the fighting. Oh, 2 people died as casualties. And like that became like a thing, so much so that like Marvel, they started— in Civil War, it's so funny. Yeah, they fight at like an abandoned airport.

Yes, it's always abandoned or something.

Yeah.

Or in, uh, uh, Age of Ultron.

Oh, Age of Ultron.

Yep. Let's clear it. Let's get everyone off here.

Yep.

Yeah, get everybody off of here.

Scan the warehouse. There's no living life forms inside. It's okay for me to nuke the whole place, you know.

I hate that so much.

Yeah, yeah, this movie does good with like him. He swoops in so many times to save people.

Yeah, just saves people. And I think that's a great Superman moment, like every time he saves people. But the one that's my favorite is when he's stopping the kaiju from crashing into the building. And he just gets right up to the glass and it just cracks a little bit. And it's just, it's like this perfect Superman moment because he saves it, but just barely, right? You know, I love it.

Yeah, yeah, the fire beam going into the building and he turns around and makes sure everybody's okay first before he gets back to fighting.

Y'all good? And then the first time I noticed this, because I watched this movie this time with, with subtitles and with headphones on, usually just So you hear like some little things in the background, uh, when they're doing that Hammer of Bravia firing into that building, uh, the, the tech bros at the panels said like, oh, there are no casualties. And somebody's like, oh, it can't be perfect every time or something like that, right? Like they were hoping to kill people but didn't.

Yeah, pretty dark.

Yeah.

Jeez.

Yeah. They're very gleeful about their their pain and destruction that they cause.

Mm-hmm.

Well, did we do it, boys?

I think so.

Did we get through a good Superman 2025? Yeah, breakdown.

I believe we did. Seems like something we might have done.

God, I really love this movie. Okay, so we did it. What'd you guys think? I'll start. I love this movie. I really do.

First time I've heard you say that.

It, it's just one of those, like, you know, when you get a movie that just, you know, vibrates at your same, your, your same whatever, right? Like, just, it's just one of those movies for me. I'll probably watch it till the day I die. It's one of those, just like one of those I gotta see.

Yeah, I, I really, uh, dug it. I hope it's a good starting point for like DC to be able to tell a bunch of good stories with their, with you know, with all the characters that they have, uh, without, you know, hopefully without becoming too, uh, you know, Xeroxy with the, the way that Marvel eventually did of everything kind of being the same. But like, you know, something a little more fresh and stuff like that with it. But yeah, it's a fun movie. It's, uh, you know, a couple dark times, but for the most part it's all about, you know, you know, positive message and stuff like that. And just, it, you know, it's really entertaining all the way around.

Yeah, this is great. I really like this movie. Um, gives me big excitement for the rest of like this new DC Universe. Um, because this movie just nails it. I really like the interpretation of Superman. It's more uplifting than we've seen in a long time, I feel like. Um, at least in the movies, like, because yeah, Zack Snyder stuff, a little more dark, a little more serious. Um, It's a nice change of tone. I think it differentiates itself very well from that. Um, and I like the acting. Everybody does great in this movie. All the side characters— I really like Guy Gardner, Green Lantern. He's probably my favorite Green Lantern. He's just such a jerk.

But is he your favorite Green Lantern from the books too, or just—

Yeah, I think so. Really? I really like him. Yeah. Uh, so I was happy to get him in there. Um, and that's what I like about James Gunn. He always picks kind of some more obscure people and kind of highlights them, which I like. Uh, I did— this is not necessarily a complaint, but something I'd meant to bring up earlier— the music I like a lot. Um, it's almost disappointing to me that they just reuse the Superman theme from like—

Yeah, they lean on the John Williams Superman theme.

It's great for a reason. It's a classic. It's— everybody knows it's a Superman theme. But something that's kind of exciting about these like new iconic— like whenever the new Batman movie comes out, they're Oh man, what are they gonna do for the theme? Like, this is gonna be, you know, it's fine. Kind of fun to hear the new interpretations. Like, and like with the Man of Steel had a great like theme for Superman. I thought it was a lot different. Um, and this just does the same thing. It does its own spin on it. It has like electric guitars and stuff like that in there. Um, which is cool, but that might— it's a hitter. It's not a bad thing. There's a good pros and cons, I guess, right? Like, it's iconic. So. Yeah, but it might have been cool to hear like a whole new thing, but that's okay.

Yeah, and they're gonna be— they're gonna be locked into that theme now as like going forward. Like, it's an homage to the original and it's different enough, but it's still very recognizable. Well, we know what we thought. We didn't talk about the Foley work. I think this movie has some of the best Foley work in a movie I've seen in a long time. Don't be surprised if they're nominated for an Oscar for Sound, sound design. Sound design.

Yeah.

Hope they didn't hear first, people.

You hear it? Yes, exactly.

I'm still gonna be— I'm still gonna be surprised.

I'll fix it. Don't be. I'm telling you not to be, Keith. If I see one inkling of surprise in your face, I am going to lose it.

Oh, I'll flip a lid.

Yep. All right, well, we know what we thought. Well, what did the internet have to say? This is gonna be interesting. On July 10th, 2025, Eugenia for Audible had this to say. Loved it! If the measure of a movie is the feeling you have while leaving the screening, I can say, for my part, that the movie is amazing. I came out with a desire to watch it again and an abundance of things to rave about. Normally, I have at least a remark, Something that didn't make sense or something to pick at in the script. This time I generally had no complaints about it. David Corenswet is delivering a memorable performance and so is Nicholas Hoult, but dear me, Nathan is guy. Hilarious, that one, and along with Krypto, funniest bits of the movie. Good job to everyone involved. This is definitely a right step for DC. I like this review. It's not like crazy or whatever, right? It's just, it's pretty just a genuine, like, here's a review. And it's nothing like, uh, I love DC or anything like that. Nothing.

No, I will say is usually when I leave a theater, like, one of my first comments if I'm talking to somebody about it is I'm usually like, ah yes, way too long. And I did not do that with this one. No, I didn't. I did not complain about the length of it.

Well, it's just like Eugenia here, I wanted to see it again right after I saw it. So to me, it's a sign of a good movie. Anyway, 25 people found this helpful, 56 not so much.

Whoa.

10 out of 10.

Interesting.

This is like internet battle is what it is. I knew, I knew it was going to be interesting, but not to be outdone, on July 15th, 2025, Swales Film had this to say. Awful mess. Oh, I spent most of the time wondering if I should walk out, but I had spent money to see it and wanted to try and understand its appeal due to the high score here. I didn't have high expectations after seeing the trailer, but thought there might be some good moments in it at least. I was wrong. I don't know if A, I can be blamed for the script because I think it can generate much better material.

He doesn't think he can be blamed for this.

I don't know if AI— oh, I can be blamed. I don't know if AI can be blamed. I thought it was like A, like A, then B, because there's a weird space here. I don't know if AI can be blamed for this. I'm reading this as written. Can be blamed for the script because I think it can generate much better material.

Wow.

The film was an absolute mess and never will I believe IMDb scores again. I don't think there is anything good to say about it at all.

What?

No, no character development, no drama, and way too much cartoony CGI. The story was all mumbo jumbo. Okay, 146 found it helpful, 100 not so much. 1 out of 10.

200 and some people found it, read that review, and yes, and then bothered to comment on it.

I also feel like this was written by someone who didn't watch the movie because there was absolutely no specifics in it.

Very vague.

Very vague. Too vague. Should I find one that isn't as vague?

They claim that they thought AI wrote the script.

Yeah, no, they said AI could write a better script. See, I knew this would be interesting because there's a very Large—

I wrote that review—

contingent of people that, uh, it's really haters. Haters out there. Haters for the sake of hating sort of thing. Like, yeah, I will bring back the Snyderverse. I'm sure— I'm surprised it didn't say restore the Snyderverse on it. All right, well, we got through Superman 2025.

We sure did.

We are halfway done with our Oops All Wheel— wheel cart. Oops, all wildcard movies. And I guess what we need to do is we need to pick week 3, right?

Yes, I'm excited.

Boy, we have our wheel. On the wheel, we started on week 1 with all 24 movies that were, were not pulled on the wheel previously, and we've removed 2. We've removed Superman and Romancing the Stone. But let's refresh the, the listeners at home as to what's on this wheel before spin it. From week 1, we have They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and The Last Dragon. From week 2, we have Dracula's Dog and Tommy. Week 3, we have The Swarm and Flashdance. Week 4, we have Hot Rod and Fever Pitch. Oh, the Fever Pitch one I'm scared of. I don't ever want to see it. Week 5, we have Her and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. From week 6, we had Logan's Run and Time Bandits. From week 7, we had Chopping Mall and Time Bandits. From week 8, we had The Fast— oh no, The Fast and the Fierce.

Oh.

And Superman, which we just watched, which is off. We— from month 8, we have Romancing the Stone, which has been taken off of, and Godzilla, Mothra, and King Ghidorah, giant monsters all out attack. Then we had Sniper and Major Payne, and then we had Sky High, not the Disney one, and Talk to Me. Ooh, Talk to Me.

Oh, please.

And then finally we had Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and After Hours, which is next on Terry's list of Scorsese movies to watch.

Can I, can I just say something?

Yeah, so you can always say something.

I feel like there was an omen on, uh, on my Letterboxd feed. Because this week I saw somebody had watched They Shoot Horses, Don't They? That I follow, and they gave it a high review. Oh, 4 out of 5. So you know what, I have a feeling that was an omen. I don't— we'll find out, but I'm just saying.

Okay, we will find out. Well, here's the wheel. Are you guys ready for me to spin it?

Yes.

Sure.

Away we go.

It's spinning.

Keith's gonna be disappointed this week.

Oh boy, Keith!

Another Keith! Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Wow.

Congratulations.

I've not seen this. No, really? Wow. Well, we did it.

We got through Superman. We're on to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Yep, yep, I'm excited.

I'm excited too. I guess that leaves us nothing to do but to end this the way we end everything. You have no idea what turns and twists the podcast would have taken though, if we wouldn't have watched— what was it called?

Whatever it was. The Leprechaun.

I think it should be way different.

No, it was Leprechaun.

Oh, Leprechaun was Tubi. Oh, Chuck Norris led into Tubi.

Yeah, Chuck Norris ruined our Foodie, uh, picks.

Foodie to Tubi.

Foodie to Tubi.

Yeah, that's a dark alternate timeline where, yeah, we watched Superman right after Tubi.

Yeah, who knows what happened.

Meteor hits the Earth or something, you know.

Keith doesn't watch Leprechaun: Back 2 the Hood and feels good about it.

I don't know, I feel, I feel I have like 9 Leprechaun movies here, so I feel good about it.

Yeah, worked out for Derek.

Heck yeah.

Derek's kids' college fund has extra money in it.

Yeah, or 6 less Monies.

But it's, uh, that's being replaced with cultural, um, you know, art.

Before Hadley goes away to school, I'm gonna give her that. I got— yeah, I have a serious talk with you.

I've been saving this for years.

You're going away from— going away to college, away from home for the first time. I want you to take this. It's the Leprechaun 8-disc pack. 8-disc pack including Leprechaun Origins, which you don't have to watch. I'm told it's terrible.

Oh God, please don't. I will— yeah, don't.

Have you ever seen it?

If you're, if you're, if you're, if you're struggling, uh, you know, there in the first, you know, weeks of college and you just, you need something to remind you of home, just pop in any one of these 8.

Yep. But keep in mind, I've only watched Leprechaun: Back to the Hood.

Oh, so by the time she goes, you still haven't watched the rest of them?

Okay.

Yeah, Dad, it's still in the plastic.

I know. I know.

It hasn't been touched.

Yeah.

It's been preserved perfectly.

Thanks for listening to Fumbling Through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email us at [email protected]. Follow us on Bluesky at Film Fumblers and on Instagram at film.fumblers. You can also follow Keith on Instagram at kg33lives and Dad's Cards Daily. Terry's on Letterboxd at Terry2099, and Derek's on social media at Derek the number 9 and the word 9. All original music is produced by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry. Hit him up for the bangers. See you next week as we keep on fumbling.