From Page to Screen Wildcard: Red Sonja (1985)

Gather together from the cosmic reaches of the universe. Here in this great screening room with comfortable recliners are the most powerful forces of good ever assembled.

Keith.

They asked him to turn the screen on and he had porn up on it. Oops, sorry, I was watching something else. My bad. Let me see if I can find where these people are.

Terry. Technically, I was on the moon.

Derek.

What's the, uh, what's his face? The Russian asset fat man fighter. What's this guy? And the power twins, Zap and Jordan, with their magical lemur snort dedicated Welcome back to Fumbling Their Way Through Movies, one forgotten gem at a time! This week we watch people ride horses in 1985's Red Sonja!

This is Fumbling Through Film!

Why have you been following me?

To see that you reach the talisman safely.

Why?

I have to be sure that the talisman is destroyed. Centuries ago, the high lords of Hyrcania have entrusted the talisman to the priestesses. Because only women may touch it. But to guard it, or to destroy it if need be, is still the duty of the High Lord.

You, the High Lord?

I was coming to the temple to see the talisman destroyed when I found your sister dying and learned that the talisman had been stolen. So she guided me to you.

But why didn't you tell me who you were?

You didn't seem to want a man's help, but you needed it. So that's why I followed you. I had to be sure that you reached the talisman.

I see. I misunderstood.

I thought you had another reason.

Hello and welcome to another one-of-a-kind, shudder-inviting, brand new episode of Fumbling Through Film, the only show that dares to bring together 3 dudes to talk about movies. These, however, aren't just any movies.

Exactly. Thank you. You say this every week and I'm just so happy.

I'm glad you're happy, Terry, because these are the ones we—

I'm not hardly ever happy.

Yeah, Keith's always upset. These are the ones we've missed, overlooked, or feel are simply worth revisiting. That, my friends, is any movie.

Yeah, but that's where my, my, my smile goes upside down to a frown.

And I start to smile immediately.

And Keith's frown goes to a smile. It is literally any movie. Any movie falls within these 3 things. We've missed them. overlooked them, or feel are simply worth revisiting. Any movie. Even though I just said they're not any movie, they are any movie. My name is Derek and I'm a fumbler. Here joining me in the Fumble Dome where we guard any movie. I guess we can't touch them.

No, none of us are allowed to.

No.

Thank God. We shouldn't touch them.

Yeah, please don't touch any movie. It's the Prime Minister of Fumbling in Film. It's Keith.

Hey, hey, what's up? It's KG, uh, Extraordinary Fumbler.

Wow, that's it?

Usually they have like—

that's it.

I'm kind of like the Fumbler Extraordinaire, but I'm Extraordinary Fumbler because I'm a different character even though I'm pretty much the same guy.

Oh, I see what you're getting at. Every other episode you're Fumbler Extraordinaire, this episode Even though you look just like KG, sound just like KG, do all the things KG does. Yep, you're not.

No, no, I get it.

I get what you're getting at, Keith. I get what you're putting down. You are Krom by Krom. That other Krommy, very Kromulent individual. Yes, is the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry.

Many people describe me as Cromulent. Um, I would agree with that wholeheartedly. By Crom, I'm always talking about how great Crom is. He listens— he never listens to my prayers, but that's what we like about him.

That is what we like about Crom. He's elusive, as gods are.

And he will, he will listen for riddles when I die, and if I fail his riddle, I will get sent to hell.

Yep.

Which is awesome.

Wait a minute.

I'm terrible at riddles.

I don't like that.

Well, riddle me this, Batman.

Oh, god dang.

What is it we do here?

If that's the question, I'm really struggling. I don't know.

All right, dear listener, I'm going to fill you in. So when that riddle comes back at the end of the episode, as it always does, you'll be able to answer correctly. Every week we watch movies, but not just any old movie. Nope.

Each—

every month, one of us chooses a theme, a genre, a guiding light, some sort of MacGuffin to chase after, uh, that just gives us purpose. And we pick movies that adhere to that MacGuffin or theme. And then on the 4th week, like this week, we truly fumble by spinning a wheel to give us a random selection. Now this month, we're in DTF, Down to Fumble. Y2, year 2. M7, the M still stands for month. I like saying that.

Still does.

And that's a me month. It's Derek month. So I chose From the Page to the Screen, movies that were adapted from written work. And I started us off with the, the probably the most High-spirited, high-energy, fun movie we watched in a long time. The Road.

My favorite way to celebrate Father's Day.

It was the Father's Day spectacular.

I think that's what really ramped it up to make it the most, like, just fun go-get-a-movie that we watched.

Yeah, let's go grab my dad. We sit around the, the couch, the television, and turn on The Road to watch it.

I grabbed my dad, we sat around the couch.

Yeah, we sat around and we didn't sit on it.

No.

You know, you get— you grab a glove and a ball and just throw on, you know, you're playing catch in front of the TV while you watch.

Yeah. And in true road spirit, we did— we threw like body parts that were just dismembered and discarded and left out in the woods for some— That's what we did, right? We're not gonna eat them. We're not cannibals, but we'll play catch with them. We're only human.

We're only human and we got to find some way to pass the time.

Exactly. In this desolate world.

If I die in a desolate world and my body's just a bunch of parts, I give anyone permission to throw them like a football or a baseball. Just have some fun with it.

Yes.

That's the only way permission ends though.

I don't even— God, no.

I give permission that, uh, you know, once I pass away, uh, people can, uh, light me on fire on top of a hill like they did in This movie and in Conan.

Oh yeah. Wow.

I'm down for that.

It's really—

Down for that 100%.

Go ahead.

Get lit on fire. Get lit.

And then the second week was Keith and he chose Fast Times at Ridgemont High. Fast Times at Ridgemont High based on Cameron Crowe's Fast Times at Ridgemont High: The Truth.

The Truth. And then week 3 was Terry and he chose Conan the Barbarian. Conan the Barbarian.

Yes, based off of the stories written by Robert E. Howard for his magazine submissions.

We watched that, then we spun the wheel, and then the wheel gave us Red Sonja. Red Sonja should have been vetoed, but it was—

nobody stopped it.

Nobody stopped it.

We had the opportunity.

We didn't.

I was on a big Conan vibe. I was ready to just go with some more Conan style. Robert E. Howard. Inspired works, and so why not? Just let it go.

Why not?

That's the 38th chamber.

Conan style.

Where he punches animals.

Camels and horses. Well, before we do a deep dive into 1985's Red Sonja.

Yep.

And before we even talk about our viewing, do we do a deep dive, any of that stuff? Did any of us have any previous knowledge, history? or experience with 1985's Red Sonja?

Nope, not really.

Obviously. Um, I remember seeing this movie as a kid.

You've seen this?

You saw it?

Yeah.

Really? My dad used to like going to see movies a lot, so like this is one, uh, that we probably saw, much like a lot of other, you know, movies in this time period where I'm like 10 years old, 11 years old, you know, going to check something out. Uh, so I've seen a lot of these things. Um, these things like these type of movies, like when, you know, and, and if, and if I didn't see them here, like if I didn't see them like in the theater, it was definitely something like it was on at some point in time. I think I mentioned like last week or something, I probably Conan, I probably saw a lot of times, like when my dad let me fall asleep on the couch. And it was on, you know, he was watching it or whatever. And so I'd see bits and pieces because there's certain things, even in this movie, there's certain things that I fully remember, and then there's 95% of the movie that I don't remember anything, but I know I've seen it.

I've never seen it. I knew of it. My wife's name is Sonya, spelled the same way as Sonia. So that would— it's often a thing if you see like a Red Sonja book or comic book or the DVD out in the wild to point it out to my wife because she's— it's like she's never heard it before. She's never heard that joke. She enjoys that.

I'm gonna make sure to start sending you pictures every time I see one now.

Exactly. It's one of those things. Her friends will do that too. Like, oh, look what I found. Like, great. She doesn't give a shit. So I do it in that sense. Like I knew it existed. Um, so yeah, I think I've never seen it before. I think last week I said if it was amazing, I would have probably seen it.

Yeah.

Yep.

Let's see if that theory holds true. I don't know.

We'll see if it holds true. We can't, we can't say yet.

No, we don't want to spoil our thoughts.

We don't want to.

And we have many.

I already said it should have been vetoed, but maybe that's because it should have been saved for the end of the year or something like that.

It's too good for this podcast.

Yeah, that's—

you said it should have been vetoed. Uh, Terry said he'd never, never seen it. I said it was obvious. So I think we're really kind of ramping up towards something here.

Anyway, uh, you know what we need to do, Keith? You and I, we need to sit around that campfire.

Yes, we do.

Listen to some little brat talk. Hey, not you, Terry. Some another little brat.

Wait, am I the little— the boy king of this podcast?

No, you're not the boy king. You're definitely not the boy king.

No, you're just— you're just Prince.

Yeah, the Clown Prince of this podcast.

Oh, well, I'll take that.

Yeah, yeah, the little boy king. Uh, I was just gonna— I would say we're listening to him whine about something, and then Terry's gonna take us closer to Red Sonja than we could ever have imagined.

We're both just talking at the same time. It happens. The boy king and me.

I, I need to tune one of you two out, and I need to hear you to toot him out.

Well, they both are talking. You kind of pick and choose when you're ready to listen to me or when you're ready to listen to the Boy Prince.

I've never listened to the— I'm really never ready to listen to the Boy Prince, I can tell you that much right now. Yeah, I feel—

I felt that way most of the movie.

Yeah, Darius is gonna take us closer.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about? I was listening to the Boy Prince.

Keith, you— no, why would you do such a thing?

Dang it.

He needs to be spanked, and you need to spank him, Keith.

Yep. Let me get the table.

Get the tables. Terry's going to take us closer to Red Sonja than we could ever imagine in another patent-pending Fumbler's Deep Dive.

All right. We're going to talk about Red Sonja from 1985.

Yes.

So a little, little deep dive about Red Sonja as the character.

So good.

At least her origins. So she was created by Robert E. Howard, um, though to my knowledge the character is pretty minor. Uh, she only appeared in one short story. It was called The Shadow of the Vulture, uh, which I did read in preparation for this, uh, discussion. Um, the first thing to note is that Sonya is spelled differently in the book.

S-O-N-I-A-A?

S-O-N-Y-A.

Oh.

So that's kind of weird. I don't know why they—

why would they change it then?

The J looks cool.

It does.

So maybe that's why, but maybe it's legally distinct.

Maybe.

But it's still the Hiberian Age.

We'll see. Okay, this is— here's the next surprise.

I— first of all, I just love this. Like, somebody puts together the poster for the movie, like they're ready to go, but they got the Y. I was like, man, I bet you that'd look better with a J.

Yep. Spell it with a J, not with a Y.

The next surprise is that, uh, Howard's story is not taking place in the Hiberian Age.

What?

It's a historical fiction.

What?

It takes place in the real world.

Huh?

Back in the 1500s.

I thought you said the '50s. I'm like, that'd be the future for him.

1950s?

That'd be awesome. This is totally completely different.

Yeah, she's a future, uh, warrior of some sort.

She battles in the courtrooms.

Yeah, she's, she's the inspiration for She-Hulk.

Yes, exactly. No, it's the 1500s. Old, old, old. That is old, but not as old as the Hyperion Age.

That's like the Dark Ages, right? The 1500s?

Yep. And this story, it takes place around a, um, Historical event, the Siege of Vienna.

Okay, sure.

So I don't know anything about the siege. Oh, I know that.

Classic. Okay, let's name our top 10 sieges.

Okay, well, Siege of Vienna, and then there's the Second Siege of Vienna. I like that too.

I, you know what, I, uh, I put the second one ahead of the first one.

Okay.

Oh, fair.

Yeah, that's all I know too.

Yeah, that's enough said, you know. That's pretty obvious what the rest are.

Do we need to even mention 8 more sieges? Yeah, don't think so. I broke my own rule. I gave out a ridiculous number and then 10, that's way too many sieges.

Rainbow Six Siege is pretty good.

Yeah. What was the, what's the, what's his face? The Russian asset Fat Man fighter. What's this guy? What's Under Siege?

Oh yeah, that's classic.

Oh yeah.

What's his name?

The guy who does Aikido.

Why is it escaping me?

Long hair, ponytail.

Seagulls. Yeah.

Robert Siegel.

No, it's not Robert, is it?

No. Robert Siegel. Steven Seagal.

Thank you. Thank you. Oh my God.

That—

Okay.

That's another top seed show. Obviously we all love that one. Let me remember something.

I think, I think, I think there's 2 of those also.

I think my brain's broken after that. I couldn't think of Steven Seagal.

Yeah, I—

it—

well, yeah, I'm— and I'm feeling really embarrassed that I couldn't think of it. I just had to blurt out Seagulls to help along.

Keith in particular feels very embarrassed.

Keith props up his pride on his ability to remember Steven Seagal.

Uh, his first 3 movies are pretty good. I enjoy them.

Yeah, I wake up every morning hoping I remember.

Out for Justice, Above the Law, and Under Siege.

Haven't seen any of them. Maybe we need a Seagal month.

No.

Oh yeah. Well, I guess I'll just move on. Uh, so it's an interesting story. I, like I said, I read it. I'm going to give you a brief summary. This is the Terry summary of what I remember about it.

Is this like the idiots or dummies guide?

Yes.

To Red Sonja or the Shadow of the Vulture featuring Red Sonja.

As a minor character. Yes.

Because it's hard to, it was hard to read because at first I was really like, just my brain was shell-shocked that this was like, they were talking about like The Turks and all this. I'm like, wait, what? Because I was ready for it to be in a fantasy world, and it was like my brain's like playing catch-up. Like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, this all sounds like stuff that you know is real.

Really, yeah, it was.

Yeah.

So it really took my brain time to adjust. So here's my brief snot. Well, maybe not so brief. It's kind of long minutes. But here we go. Basically, Sonia is not the main character. Instead, it's this guy named Gottfried. So Gottfried is he's part of this diplomatic party. He's being held prisoner, kind of, sort of, by this Ottoman Sultan guy. Okay. The Sultan, uh, he ends up letting him go, but as he says goodbye, he seems to, uh, recognize Gottfried from somewhere, but he's not sure. After Gottfried leaves, he realizes that Gottfried is the man who wounded him in war, like whatever the last war was, in some skirmish.

Yeah.

And of course that's not gonna stand now that he's Sultan. He's gotta get revenge.

Yeah, for sure.

Instead of making, you know, like official government business, the Sultan hires this like infamous bandit guy. He's like, dude, you need to go kill him and bring him— bring me his head. Do what you do, go pillage the countryside, make it look like it's totally random, you know, you're not going after a certain guy, but you need to get me this guy. Of course, the, the bandit guy agrees. He's pretty cool. He's— so this is where the, the title comes from, Shadow of the Vulture. He's got these giant metal vulture wings on his back that he wears on his armor. Are they functional? He just swoops around. No, no, but the people comment on how they can hear it like kind of almost flapping in the wind as he rides on his horse.

Okay.

The bandit guy, of course, he goes nuts. He just starts burning all the towns on the country. Uh, Gottfried doesn't really put two and two together they're after him, but he knows like behind him as he's traveling, places are just getting burned. So he eventually makes it to Vienna, which is a big city. Um, yeah, and it caused a bit of a standoff because it's not so easy for the bandits to get in there and, um, start causing trouble. So that's where the siege comes in. Um, so there's Vienna and the bandit horde outside. This is where Red Sonja is introduced because, um, as the bands are trying to invade, Gottfried's fighting on the walls. He gets in trouble. Sonja comes in and saves his butt like a couple times. Um, she's just like foul-mouthed, uh, woman warrior.

Um, I like that.

Yep. Uh, she doesn't really like Gottfried at all. She doesn't really like anybody in this book. Very grumpy. Uh, but Gottfried eventually impresses her because he drunkenly leads a counterattack against the bandits and And she likes that. And then it's all revealed that basically they capture some bandits. Um, they tell them they're looking for Gothfrid. So Sonia and Gothfrid have a plan. They set a trap for the bandit leader, lead him into an ambush. And then the end of the book is them mailing the head of the bandit leader to the Sultan guy.

Nice.

It's an interesting story.

Sure.

I liked the kind of pettiness of the Sultan. They were just like, just burn the entire country to the ground trying to find them.

Does the story end? Like literally with like a head in a box arriving. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's how all of his stories end. They just end so abruptly.

Yeah. It's kind of like a, uh, well, hold on. Is it? It feels like they were supposed to kill the Sultan guy at some point, you know, but no, I did like how it ends because Sultan's all high and proud. It seems like he's getting rich off of like all the bandits plundering and stuff too. So he's kind of like just chilling in his throne and then he gets that head and he's like, yeah, it must be Godfrey's head. And he opens it and this other guy's like, oh dang it.

Dang.

Interesting story. I did not— there's no fancy elements really at all besides maybe metal vulture wings.

Yeah, I wish they were functional. I wish he did fly like over the city or something like that.

Yeah, that would be a pretty—

over the siege towers.

I wish he was like the Vulture from Spider-Man.

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, alien technology and whatnot.

Well, no, or the cool Leonardo da Vinci-based one from, uh, Spider-Verse.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See why not?

That's good.

Hmm. Maybe that's what inspired it. Maybe.

Or maybe that vulture from Bugs Bunny.

It's like do do do do. I wish he was more like that guy.

Yeah.

Do do do do do do.

Godfrey, are you out? I'm looking for Godfrey.

Yeah.

Oh no no no no no. So threatening.

Mm-hmm.

But so this movie was directed by Richard Fleischer. Mm-hmm. Got a decent amount of directing credits, uh, one of them being Conan the Destroyer.

Okay, which you watched recently.

Yes, a sequel to Conan the Barbarian, and I did watch it a couple days ago. It was just okay, not that great.

Um, so, so it's like a theme, like right on par with Conan the Barbarian.

Uh, Conan the Barbarian was much better, I thought.

Oh boy, so then Conan the Destroyer is bad.

I think I have higher feelings about Conan the Barbarian.

Terry, you are, you are, you are very, very gracious with your film viewing.

Maybe I am. Maybe I'm too gracious. Uh, this is more like kind of just— this kind of like— this is Conan.

He's that young, he's that young boy prince. Uh, youthful, energetic. Naive about the ways of the world.

Yeah, yeah. You and me, there's a world where he yet—

no, no, I'm just, uh—

He does have a giant stone hand he sits on.

Yeah, and I yell at you guys to like get me out of there, but I don't help at all.

Yeah, move the stone hand that for somehow I'm on. I had you literally—

I'm balancing on the edge of—

move it, please. Yeah, it felt— this Conan the Destroyer felt like a better version perhaps of Red Sonja the movie. No, not to give my opinion away, but It's more, you know, just kind of fantasy adventure.

I—

to me, I thought that Conan the Barbarian, like, while it didn't like base itself strictly off any story, at least it captured the vibe sometimes of the books. This does not really capture the vibe. Um, although he does— I think there is some more inspiration from the books. Like, he fights his— one of his arch-nemeses, Thoth-Amon. Thoth-Amon, whatever that guy's name is. He's like an evil wizard. He shows up in a few books.

Yeah.

A few stories. The concept's kind of cool. Like, he's escorting a queen's niece. She's like the chosen one. She has to do this journey. She's the only one who can get this mysterious key. They need the key.

Boy, big McGuffin movies.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And she has to— the key will somehow waken up this sleeping god.

Somehow the god has returned.

Yes, the sleeping god will be awoken by the key. Of course, things aren't quite what they seem. Maybe there's human sacrifice involved. I don't No, I don't want to spoil it for anybody. Um, but a lot of people compare it with like a typical D&D adventure, which kind of makes sense because Conan's got a whole crew with him of people who have their own little thing going on. Uh, this guy also directed Amityville 3D.

Ooh.

Yes, exciting. With 3D in the title, you know it's gotta be good.

Yeah, at a time when 3D was red and blue glasses.

Yes.

And if you, if you had a 3rd movie, if you, in your trilogy coming out, you were Definitely using that, uh, 3D as the, the number for it as well.

Yeah, well, you weren't definitely doing that, but if you were Jaws or Amityville, you were doing that.

Yeah, I guess Friday the 13th, I think it was like the 5th one that was in 3D.

I don't remember.

Missed opportunity.

Agreed.

Yeah.

Uh, and you know it's gonna age well too when it's in 3D. Back then, always do. Yeah, I was watching the trailer and yeah, so much like junk was flying at the screen.

Uh huh.

I saw Jaws three in 3D in a theater.

Mm hmm. Yeah, of course, of course. Was it good?

No, I don't remember.

No, you don't have to remember, Keith. It's terrible.

It's one that we might need to revisit.

I believe I saw at the Paramount Theater in Bourbonnais, Illinois.

It don't matter where you—you could have watched it on the goddamn moon, and it was bad, man.

If I got sent to the moon, and then that's all I did there. Jaws three.

Yeah.

That would be like, what? Why? Well, the moon people—

What a contest! You, you like send in like some cereal box tops and you get entered and you win a trip to the moon to watch Jaws 3D.

Yeah, that's what—

As soon as it's over, they just send me back. Like, that's all I did up there.

Instantly. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's the, it's the best thing I've seen.

Just like one recliner on the moon.

Yeah, it's just me. The rocket lands and I don't even get out. I just sit there and they turn the screen on. I watch it, then it takes off again and takes me home.

You know, you watch it from inside the capsule. Yeah, the landing capsule.

Technically, I was on the moon. Thanks, Elon Musk. That's probably his competition.

Yes, it sounds like something he'd do.

But yeah, it's about, uh, like a journalist. He moves into the Amityville house because he doesn't— he wants to prove it's not actually haunted.

Sure. I mean, as, as you would. And guess what? It is haunted.

Yes, and bad stuff happens, but it's in 3D.

It has to.

So you should just burn this house down.

I agree with that as well.

A couple unresolved questions from Amityville 1 and 2 that the 3D really helps with.

Well, the thing about Amityville, like, they really prescribed to the dimensions. Like, Amityville 1 was a dot on the screen.

It was 1D.

It was 1D. It was a single dot projected onto the screen for an hour and a half. 2D was animated, so you're like, okay, this is better.

Yeah. 3D, finally we're getting all 3 dimensions. But 4 was kind of crazy. I had a hard time figuring out what's going on with that one.

Because the beginning and the ending existed at the exact same time. And you sat there with this weird space bubble and there's time bubble and you're just like, all right.

I sat there, I was like, and then I was like, you experienced the entire movie all at once. You need to process it. Yeah, don't even get me started on the 5th or 6th one. Oh God, I had to go to like a doctor's office and really decompress that.

And then they did the one with Ryan Reynolds, you're like, Jesus.

Oh, they had to reboot it. Yeah, the remake's just the typical film. Yeah, kind of lazy if you ask me. I agree.

They got all the way to like 8D.

And then just went back to the start.

Yeah, it really is one of the most ambitious film franchises of all time. Uh, yeah, what was scary is when they got to 90, that's when the ghost dimension opened and it was for real.

Yep.

That's why they had to stop.

As we all know, the 9th dimension is the ghost dimension.

Yep. After you get past all the 8 dimensions, ghost dimension's number 9. And yeah, that's— you never want to go to the 9th dimension.

No, that's— it was, it was a box office poison, The Ninth Dimension.

Yeah, the first reviews come out, you're like, oh yeah, I'm not going to that. Faces are melting, people flying.

All reviews are just like ghastly screams.

Our normal reviewer isn't here because he got sucked into the ghost dimension while watching.

Yeah, all print reviews are just screams printed out.

Yeah, you're walking by the theater going to something next door and you just hear screaming coming from inside.

Screaming, but it's not like normal screaming, it's It's not like— so this movie we haven't even gotten to yet has the female version of the Wilhelm scream in it. I don't know if you noticed that. There's like that, you know, the Wilhelm scream, but there's the female version. It's always this like high-pitched like, yeah, as she— and they kept falling down the pit and they all had the same screams. It's not like that. No. Walk by Amityville 9D. It, it, it's one of those things that curdles your blood when you hear it. It's not a normal scream. No. It is a nasty dimension scream. You don't even want to mess with it.

There's a reason Buckaroo Banzai only went to the 8th dimension.

Well, he knows. He knew. Yeah.

The producers, they didn't quite understand what they're getting into with this 9D thing. Nope. But luckily, lessons learned. Everything's fine now. Uh-huh. Don't mind that giant wormhole in the Theater 5 of the AMC.

I can't wait until we do Basakonda 9D. Yeah, it's gonna be great.

Oh no, you don't. If anything, Keith, learn from the hubris of the Amityville producers. Don't go to the 9th dimension.

Well, maybe this time we'll be able to contain the ghost dimension.

Oh, fine. We'll just get Ryan Reynolds to come reboot it for us.

See, and now that's another 9D movie. It's always the thought that we contain the 9th dimension. That's plot. And then of course it always falls apart.

Yep.

That should actually be the plot of the 8th— of the 8D movie is not getting to the 9D movie, and then it ends on a cliffhanger.

Yeah. And then there's always a 9D movie. God damn it, when will they learn?

Never, never. Um, well, this movie Red Sonja was written by Clive Exton and George MacDonald Fraser.

So close.

Like some 9D people right there.

They— I think so.

They're both dead, so they reside in the 9th dimension.

Rest in peace to both of them. I hope I never see them again.

9th Dimension Warriors, that's what we'll call them.

Yeah, they're fighting the good fight in there. Um, the ghost war versus the living. Yes, they've changed sides, as we all do after we die.

Yes.

Converted.

Now see, now that's a movie idea. The one person that does die but doesn't go fight for the ghosts, he like infiltrates the ghost army.

Oh yeah, like the government. Like, you know, it's like, what's that movie where they all die on purpose and then they come back to life?

Flatliners.

Yeah, it's like that, but they like do it to infiltrate ghost dimension and then come back. It's like, pull me out, pull me out! And they get the— they just zap them and wake them up.

Is this a bit how Ghost Sniper is developed?

Is that— it might be. Ghost Sniper is sent to the 9th dimension to go—

He goes to assassinate the ghost, uh, Supreme Leader.

Yeah, but there's so many ghosts. Like, you take out the head, there's just another one grows, 2 more grow.

Yeah, there's a lot of ghosts. That's the problem.

No, we got a whole history of— and it's not just humans, time ghosts. Oh man, that's right.

And there's no ghosts in this movie at all. It's The crazy part. Nope.

That is kind of crazy when you think about it. There were ghosts in the Conan movie.

Missed opportunity to have ghosts in this movie.

Well, there was maybe one ghost at the beginning. I don't know what that thing was.

Oh yeah, you're right, Keith. There was a ghost there.

We'll talk about that. It was like Galadriel or something. It's like Lady of the Lake. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Um, all right.

Sonya, Sonya, Sonya. They couldn't determine how to say it properly.

I've probably said it 3 different ways this podcast so far.

As, as one does.

I'm counting.

All right, you'll let me know at the end how many I made it. Um, Clive Exton, like I said, not much he's written that I've recognized, but he has 72 writing credits. So I'll just name a couple random things. He wrote 16 episodes of Dick Barton, Special Agent.

Nice.

Uh, 1 episode of A Ghost Story for Christmas.

Oh, he's beginning to ghost.

And then one thing that I was like, well, maybe I'll click on this, is called The Awakening.

That sounds like a ghost movie.

That's what I was thinking, something horror related. And I was right. The archaeologist— there's an archaeologist who discovers that his daughter has been possessed by the spirit of an Egyptian queen.

Oh, I like how that starts.

And to save mankind, he must destroy her.

Oh, so that's the inciting— the, the, like, the incident that starts the movie.

He finds out She's possessed. Yep. And then he must decide if he must kill the daughter to save the world.

Call to action. Yep.

It's like half Exorcist film, half Mummy movie. Hmm. Cool poster. Might be good. I don't know. It's kind of one of those movies that nobody's ever heard of and everybody's forgot about, but it exists.

Cronenberg heard about it.

That's kind of a Lee Cronenberg, The Mummy kind of thing.

It's not so, so that's not something that we've seen. That'd be something we overlooked then. So yeah. Okay. It's definitely overlooked.

Yep.

Okay. Oh, we definitely overlooked this one hard and we missed it too. I missed it, overlooked it, and I have never, I can't revisit it because I never visited it to begin with.

But the desire to visit is strong.

It's pulling me forward. But George MacDonald Fraser, he's got a few more recognizable things that he has done, but he only has 12 writing credits. So he wrote the 1973 Three Musketeers film. Then he wrote The Four Musketeers. And last but not least, he wrote The Return of the Musketeers.

Very recognizable.

And Keith, you may be excited about this in particular. He wrote a James Bond film. Ooh, Octopussy.

Mm, one of the greatest ones ever.

It's a Roger Moore Bond film. Yeah, James Bond, he faces off against Octopussy herself, and I guess she's in charge of a smuggling ring. I don't know, there's some sort of base that might get destroyed, a NATO base. Uh, the big selling point of the trailer was that James Bond is flying in a plane, so pretty cool.

Yep. And the word pussy is in the title.

And it's not an 8D.

No, no, it's not 8 or a 9D.

8P, maybe. Is the 8th dimension— 8th octopus dimension?

It is, because 8 legs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes sense.

They're not really legs, really. They're what, appendages?

Tendrils?

No, I don't think they're tendrils. Tentacles.

Yeah, there you go. So this film does have a couple people we talked about last week, so I'll not do so here. I'll just mention their names and what they played. So Arnold Schwarzenegger played Lord Kalidor in this, not to be confused with Conan. No, nothing like Conan. Completely different characters. Yes. Sandahl Bergman, she played Queen Gedren in this, the villain.

She was in the last movie, right?

Yeah, she played Conan's partner in crime and love interest last time. Oh, yeah, or something, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Funny enough, there's a couple trivia that Arnold signed up for this because he thought he was just doing a cameo. Um, and then to his surprise, he was on set for about 3 weeks longer than expected. And, uh, after watching the rough cut, he just— he learned that his role had been expanded to co-star instead of just cameo.

Wow.

And then soon after, he decided to terminate his contract with, uh, De Laurentiis, who's the producer.

Oh yeah.

He did not like it, and he says it's one of the worst things he's ever done.

The contract he signed or this movie?

The smoothest movie. Yeah, maybe both.

And we did— I think we discussed this a bit last week, the fact that he's not actually Conan in this. That's the one thing, because again, knowing that I've seen this before, always thought that he was just— this was a spin-off of a Conan thing and he was still the same character. There's nothing— I mean, I guess maybe he smiles a little bit more, seems a little more lighthearted in this one than, than, uh, Conan is. But yeah, it's just really weird that he's not that And also, as I was watching this, I was like, did they like, you know, they sit around and be like, hey, we still got like another 2 weeks on, you know, the rentals of all these props and stuff, so maybe we should do something with them. Maybe it was like every— everything kind of looked like it was from the movies we watched.

Well, he's supposed— he was supposed to be Conan, but they didn't have the rights to Conan for this, so they changed his name to Kalidor. Oh. Yep, and a fan theory according to the trivia is that people like to think of it as one of Conan's traveling names.

We checks into a hotel; that's what he uses, right?

Yeah. So yeah, I don't know about Kaldor. Conan does not seem like the type to use a traveling name. No, but maybe maybe that's something they'll talk about in King Conan whenever that comes out. Yeah, whatever. So the movie stars Bridget Nielsen as Red Sonia. Mm-hmm. Uh, Red Sonja was her first film that she's ever—

I'd say this is her debut, right?

Mm-hmm. And then right after this, she went to be in Rocky IV. It's the one where Rocky fights Drogo. Uh, it's kind of the one where everybody kind of thinks it jumped the shark a little bit, I feel like, but I kind of like that movie. Yes, the movie's amazing. Um, there— have you seen the new cut of the film, Keith? No, I have not. There's like a new cut that you cut out a lot of the weird stuff. Um, like the robot's no longer in it.

Oh, there was a robot in that movie.

Yeah, it gives Paulie a robot.

They give him— okay, I like how you say that, like, what an idiot for asking. I've, I've never seen a Rocky movie.

You haven't?

You get out of here.

I have never seen a Rocky movie, dude.

You gotta watch these.

I've seen probably pieces of Rocky the original, but I've never seen all of it.

Wow. Watch 1 through 4 and then go ahead and watch the 3 Creed movies.

Creed. All the Creeds are really good. Yeah, yeah, we'll see.

Yeah, one day. Or at least Creed 1, because he's— because Stallone is back in that one, and I think he's really—

I don't really care about Sylvester Stallone, to be honest. Oh, really? He's— I can't— I, I've just never really liked him.

He's fine. You didn't even like him in Cobra, which was another film that Bridget Nielsen was in right after she got done with Rocky IV?

Is that the one where he does arm wrestling? Nice job.

No, no, that's over the top, dude.

Come on. Why not? Listen, I just—it's not a person.

Come on, dude. I cared about. Well, Cobra is a Bruce Sloan's. He's a tough cop, and he's got to protect a witness from a cult. The tagline on the poster. You know that?

Oh, come on, Keith. Yeah. What the fuck, man?

It's like a rated R movie, and I was probably like, hey, my dad probably did that one.

You saw Red Sonja, but you didn't see this?

He didn't, he didn't take me to see Marion Cobretti in a movie. Come on now.

Well, tagline on the poster was, crime is a disease, meet the cure. And the pictures, the poster has Stallone on it with a gun. He's wearing cool sunglasses. So he's the cure for crime.

Um, sound interesting to me at all.

It, it's, it had a like a really badass poster of him like on a motorcycle with a big gun.

I think the, the biggest Stallone movie I could, I, I could think of that I watched There was, there was the one where he's like, I almost said hanging off of cliffs, but it's that Cliffhanger movie. And then, uh, I've seen Cop Land.

Oh, that's good actually. I like that one.

And then I've seen Demolition Man. All right. I have not seen any of the Rambo movies.

That's okay.

Uh, they're rebooting it, so.

Yeah, I don't care. Great. Those are movies that stuff just like, it doesn't It— if, if to me, like, you could take Stallone and Chuck Norris, and they're— to me, they're like almost the same. They're like, just like lump them together.

And okay, yeah, Rocky's the thing that sets— separates him. He— that's his best thing he's ever done is Rocky.

I'm sure it is.

Yeah, I mean, he, he wrote it as well.

Yeah, I know, and he won Oscars and stuff, and I just— it just—

He wrote Stayin' Alive also. Like, the guy's rich. The guy—

Okay, that's cool. Like, I'm telling you, when did Rocky come out?

1978 or something?

Okay, I would have been 3 when it came out. Yeah, and it was rated R, right? So hold on, like, when it came out and then it would be on TV and stuff and my folks wouldn't let me watch it. So when I got to an age, it's just like I just didn't care anymore.

Like, when I got to an age to watch these, I saw Rocky III and I was like, this is the greatest thing ever.

Like, I I fucking based my life on Rocky once I was old enough. Like, I got to a point, it's like I just didn't care, and so I never went back.

Oh, I— you, you really should. They're especially like the first— the first Rocky is actually like a legit, like straight up really good movie.

Yeah, I know it's supposed to be.

3 and 4 are—

3 and 4 are, you know, they lean a little bit more cheesy. Mr.

Cheese in 3.

And stuff like that. Yeah, Clubber Lang's amazing. I really, really like those 2 movies, but as far as like a legit, like Well-made movie that they probably could never made a sequel, and it would have been perfectly fine. That is really good. Okay, and and you should find if you find some time to watch it, I would. It's legit really good movie.

We'll see one day. Maybe.

It's a surprisingly good franchise. I liked almost all of them except for five. That's okay. Maybe someday. Maybe we'll do a a Stallone series. No, we all pick Rocky movies.

I would actually— I would intentionally not pick a Rocky movie.

Oh, he'd pick Throw Mama from the Train.

Her most recent credit, um, is something I have never heard of. I think it's a Netflix original series. It's called The Guardians of Justice .

Why is it in parentheses?

I don't know. It's like, it's like a cool song title.

Yeah, it is like a cool song title, um, with parenthetical.

Watching the trailer, it kind of gave me some Watchmen vibes a little bit. It's like a superhero murder mystery. Marvelous Man, basically the version of Superman in this universe, Mm-hmm. Uh, he kind of like implodes, self-destructs on live TV, freaks everybody out. Um, and all the other heroes in the world must grapple with this, uh, the loss of the best hero in the world, confront the darkness that surrounds them, uh, and try to figure out what happened. Trailer is actually kind of cool. It's got like a retro VHS kind of aesthetic. Switches between some different styles. It's like an anime first a little bit. There's like a video game cutscene looking thing, stop motion a little bit. It's kind of interesting. It had me intrigued. It's not have very good reviews. Uh, but it gave me some like, like the live action stuff all kind of looked like Kung Fury. If you've seen the clips from that or the movie, uh, little has that like look to it where everything is like, it's definitely like made on the cheap, but it has kind of like that '80s, like neon-y, whatever. Okay, glint to it, I guess. Um, love a glint. Yep. Uh, and also, you always have, Derek. You always love a good glint. If, uh, if that wasn't enough to intrigue you, Denise Richards is also in it. Who?

The, the Bond girl from World Is Not Enough? Christmas? Denise Richards? Okay, I wasn't sure what you said, but it wasn't those words.

Uh, and the last person I will talk about is Ernie Reyes Jr.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The Kid Prince himself. Yeah. Thank goodness. Um, I've been talking over him this whole time in my deep dive. Uh, so yeah, just keep tuning him out. He's had a lot of stuff he's done after this. Uh, he was in Rush Hour 2. He's in an episode of Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Yes. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Classic. Uh, there's also the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze film. He was in that. Yes. Um, he also played a kid named Johnny in the movie Surf Ninjas. Classic. This is where, uh, guys on fire. Yes, he had such a good run. Um, this is where the young teens discovered that they are heirs to a foreign kingdom. Uh-huh. Um, they learn this when ninjas come to try and kill them and assassinate them. Yes. But thanks to their lineage, they're granted powerful ninja abilities to fight back.

Ninja powers are—

Yes, they're not— yes, they're not, uh, you know, earned. They're just given.

They're not earned or learned through sacrifice and hard work.

They're not learned.

Yes.

You just inherit them through your blood.

It's more of a bloodline thing with most ninjas.

Yeah, I agree. Uh, interestingly, that's the secret assassins are passed down through bloodlines. There's no way to trace them.

No, no, they'll never predict who the next top assassin is.

It just will be— nope.

Yeah, once you learn who one is, you've learned who they all, they all are. Yep, throughout time. Um, what I thought was interesting was Leslie Nielsen is the bad guy in this movie.

Yes, he is.

And then, um, everybody's favorite Rob Schneider plays one of the surf ninjas too.

Yeah, he plays a surf ninja.

I think so. He's one of the main characters. I don't know if he actually becomes a ninja or if he's just friends with the ninja.

Rob Schneider is not cool enough to be a surfer or a ninja.

He might just be like the comic relief friend who's like some ninja, some guy that eats trash. Check it out, bro.

Yeah, like a goat. Yep.

Wow, that's also inherited.

Yes, it is.

The goat abilities.

And the thing about goats is they don't really eat the can. They just eat the glue off the labels or something like that, right?

Mm-hmm.

They don't actually eat the metal, but Rob Schneider eats the metal.

Well, he doesn't know that.

Yeah.

No, he's too stupid to realize. Classic Rob. That's hereditary as well.

Stupidity? Yeah, I think so.

Stupid enough to eat cans. Yes.

There's a specific type of stupid.

It's not real goat power. He's just so stupid.

It's, it's, um, imagined goat power. Yeah, it's like a syndrome. Rob, they— goats don't do that.

Yes, they do.

I showed you where you imagined goat syndrome.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not— it's a hard thing to get over once you get that.

Oh God, takes years.

It's kind of— it's like one of those things everybody's got to go through at some point though.

Yeah, if you're unfortunate. Does everybody?

If you're unfortunate enough to be inflicted with imaginary goat syndrome, then you definitely have to go through it.

Yeah, those last few years of my life were rough.

Yeah, it affects 1 out of 8 adult human beings.

It's true. Usually most people know at least one person in their life.

Yeah, if you're hanging out with 7 friends and you don't know who has IGS, it's you.

No, hanging out, just chewing a can like, I wonder who's got IGS here.

You're completely in denial while you're sitting there chomping out of the can.

Well, it's not me because obviously goats eat metal. Critics do say that this is a kid action bonanza.

Surf Ninjas?

Mm-hmm. So next family movie night, you know, this is a safe bet.

Well, shit, we got goddamn close. We're 9th Dimension close.

Oh no, wait, is that wailing I hear? It is. Chains rattling. Uh-oh.

That blood curdling scream. This is either the 9th Dimension or people running in terror away from our podcast.

Yeah, that happens too.

We're not even part of the 9th Dimension.

No, not yet.

Not yet. One day, one day we'll get there.

I'm excited. All right.

Oh man, that guy was in this.

Who?

The, um, like sorcerer guy for the, the queen.

Oh yeah, what was his name? Klandor?

This is Eichol.

Eichol. Yeah, yeah.

Uh, that's the dude who's, uh Uh, face gets melted in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Oh yeah, yeah.

And I, I thought—

no, no, no, no, it, it wasn't the wizard. He was the guy that got rolled over by the, this big rock.

He— but he was like a wizard person for the, the queen lady, like her.

Oh, we got all the like alchemy going on.

Yeah, he was like her consultant or something like that.

Well, he got— no, that guy got his head chopped off.

He's the guy who walked in and was like, he's like, hey, you gotta destroy this thing. What else do you want with it besides these cities that we've got? And she's like, I want the world. He goes, there's not gonna be a world left.

Yeah. And he, and, and he fights the prince at the end and he gets run over by the rock. The wizard who was doing like—

Sorry, I thought he was, I thought he was a wizard also. My bad. I thought he was a wizard.

I think he was. No, the guy you're talking about, I think, is is labeled as wizard in. Oh no no no!

The guy the guy who gets rolled over by the rock—that's the guy who's in Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones, yeah.

Yes, the other guy, Wizzo, the wizard over there. He wasn't Wizzo doo doo doo doo doo. He was wizard.

He wasn't very he wasn't very far off. Inside Wizzo doing weird stuff over there. That his name is.

Tut Lemcow.

His name is not Tut. Yeah, T-U-T-T-E. You made that up.

Dude, he was definitely— he looks like a tut.

There's no Tut Lemoi. What are you talking about? You made that up.

I know, T-U-T-T-E Lemcow.

Uh, the guy who was set up like at the DJ booth of this thing.

Yeah, he turns on the TV and it's just a man dancing. It was— that was not a man.

I'm pretty sure that was a woman.

I thought it was a topless man.

No, it was a topless woman. He, uh, they asked him to turn the screen on and he had, he had porn up on him.

He's like, oh, I forgot to clear my browser history.

Yeah, I'll wash it.

Sorry, I was, I was watching something else. My bad. Let me see if I can find where these people are.

His character name is literally Wizard and his human name is—

Oh, his real life name. I thought you said that his name in the, in the movie was Toot Lem— I'm like, they did not give him—

No, his, his name as a human being is Toot Lemcow. His character name is Wizard.

Toot Lemcow does sound like a fantasy name.

But Toot Lemcow, I'm sad to say, since 1991 has been part of the 9th Dimension.

Well, there you go. Extra deep dive. Yeah, bonus deep dive.

The bonus deep dive. Toot Lemcow. All right, boys, we need to talk about Red Sonja because that's why we're here today. The reason For the season.

Yep. Yeah, I'm red with envy that we get to talk about this.

I want to say that there's—

Can we redact that line?

No, that was gold.

Anything?

Yeah, well, okay, no, we will redact some things. I've learned that.

Yeah, and you know what it is, so steer clear. There is a moment in this movie that was one of the greatest cinematic moments ever.

Okay.

And it happened in the first 5 minutes, maybe 10, when the, the queen invades the temple to get the thing.

Yes.

Okay.

And it's after the way too long sword fight where all the women are killed except for Red Sonja. Yeah. And then the 3 were thrown in the pit.

Or whatever.

Oh, well, Red Sonja's sister.

Red—

was Red Sonja— oh, that was Red Sonja's sister.

Yeah, she survived, and— but she almost got—

Gotcha. That's why it was so confusing to me. I'm like, where'd the sister come from?

Yeah, Red Sonja was at the temple training swordsmanship.

Oh shit, okay, now it makes sense. Okay, so, and well, the fact that she— I, I thought—

I thought it was Red Sonja watching the movie because it's like, well, she has red hair.

I thought that too.

And why would we start the film with a different red-haired woman?

Yes. And actually, we start the movie with the explanation that her family was killed.

Yeah. Oh yeah. So I'm like, well, all her family was dead.

She was assaulted. Therefore, now she, now she has motivation. Her family was killed and she was assaulted.

And some weird, like, angel or something pops out to give her a sword.

A ghost.

Because she's going to be an awesome sword fighter. She has to have a sword.

And then from there we go to this temple where there's a person with red, a woman with red hair in like different clothing. I'm like, oh, so she's training to be whatever. That doesn't matter, right? So now that we know it's her sister, that clears things up in my head a little bit.

But yeah, it's the opening clip. He explains that the sister led him to her.

There is ADR done. Right, where they have to like, we gotta re-record some lines.

It's not the Arnold one where he like says, Sonia, but it does not sound like him at all.

No, it's the one where the queen is in this temple and she talks like a man. Oh, and by like a man, I mean like, we need to kill the women. Like, her mouth is moving. All right.

I noticed that with Arnold when he first arrives at the Bersonia's training, he like— it yells from the distance, it sounds nothing like Arnold. I was like, did they redub him for the whole movie? And then no, they didn't. It was just for that one part, I guess.

I gotta say, it's crazy how like, you know, they give you the, the opening part where they explain the background, and then she's left there in front of the house that's on fire. Yes, which looks like one of the houses from the village that Conan was in, in the first movie. Yes, but then like the next five minutes is just Arnold on a horse. Yeah, credits are rolling and stuff, and he's just riding through and rides a long way to find a bridge that's not there anymore.

Yep, it's a big problem. Yeah, big problem. We don't need Arnold. Well, we kind of do because he's I like him better than the lady who plays Redsonia, but it's like why do we? it feels like he's taking away all the stuff that Sony should be doing.

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does really feel like since he jumps in there and he's the bigger— I mean, they probably needed him to help sell the movie since this was her first thing. And, uh, you know, Ernie Reyes Jr.'s not a big name at that point and stuff.

Was he ever?

Maybe not, I don't know. Anyway, but they needed him like probably to help sell the movie. Like, people want to go see another Arnold, uh, fantasy epic type thing. They, they could have put somebody else in this movie in that character, and it probably may have been a little bit better.

It wouldn't be so confusing if people came to see Mark Conan.

Yeah, I mean, he only called himself Kaldor once, so I guess they could have got— they got away with it for the most part.

I think there's a world in which they could have just not made the movie and it may have been better.

Oh yeah, that's also possible.

Would the world be better off? Yeah. I think it would be. Yeah, probably. We would never have got the 2025 remake though.

Well, I mean, the character still existed, right?

That's true. The comics are huge.

Yeah, Gail Simone wrote a book and she did lots of runs on Red Sonja.

It's a popular character. That would have been fine. Yeah, just wait, give us some more time to cook.

There's no way it was popular because of this movie.

No, this movie is trying to capitalize on popularity of The comics.

Yeah. Yeah. And they're, and they're trying to, you know, continue to build off of the, you know, popularity of the, the Conan movies that had come just before it. Mm-hmm. And, and all the other like fantasy type movies of the '80s that were out there. Yeah.

That's true.

But it's, it's just weird that it's like this, the name of this movie is, you know, Red Sonja and they go with, hey, here she is and she's got the person gives her the cool sword. Now let's watch 5 minutes of this guy riding around looking for a bridge.

Yeah, and then we'll come back around. It's kind of odd that, but if we're comparing it to Conan, where Conan, it takes way too long with his origin story, and Red Sonja, it feels like they're like, all right, we're done. Like, within like 2 minutes, it's like, all right, here's the gist of it, move on. Yeah, I'd rather have had that with Conan where we're like, okay, here you go, he's a barbarian now. Like, it feels— I mean, it's a little too rushed in this, but I, I wish there's like— there could be a nice middle ground between the two where it's like, you could kind of give us a little more time to learn about Red Sonja before No, because we had to spend more time on a very long, uh, sword fight.

Lots of long, long sword fights, unnecessary. A lot of rolling in water.

Yeah, they're really fighting that mechanical alligator that went in—

it seemed to go in circles anyway, so I don't know why they were always confused about where it was.

It was awesome because you could tell that the fighting was done on this thing was like on an arm that just rotated around like a center pivot. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's really cool. But they kept going underwater with a camera, which is like the death knell of action. Nothing looks cool when filmed underwater like that. It looks like it's in a bathtub. Just get, get lost. Get lost. Okay. I found the bit. Do you guys want to see it?

Absolutely.

It's amazing.

So it is true, only women may touch it.

The cover! Take it out.

Did you see her mouth move with Take it out in the COVID I think that was one of the other guys.

No, it was not.

Watch the mouth. Look, look at, look at the little guy behind her.

Take it out. See that?

He moves his finger. I think she's just like moving her mouth with excitement.

Dumbest thing I've ever seen.

It's just that little guy in the background.

I'm right. The world is wrong.

You know what? We'll give you this one, Derek.

I sat there, I watched it, and I just laughed because her mouth moves. Her mouth moves as well. Why were they both talking at the same time then?

She wasn't talking. She was just kind of moving her mouth.

So, so she just didn't know it all, memorized the script, and just— she might have been saying his lines.

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I wouldn't be surprised. This movie doesn't have the greatest acting in it.

Oh God, it's got the worst acting I've ever seen.

Yeah, some of the worst.

Yeah, it is terrible.

The other part that bothers me with this is like, if you are coming into this and you are buying into, oh, here's another, you know, Conan-related movie, like, like, this is, this is a kids movie. This is not the Arnold-type action movie. Like, it's really, really dumbed down for the most part. Like, the plot is very flimsy. It's like They kind of tell you what they're getting, but like, you don't—

You don't understand it.

Yeah. There's like, there's nothing really happens between the beginning and the end. We just end up back there and they're there finally at the, the temple to stop the thing and every, you know, the earth is shaking and about to fall apart. And the guy's like, you're, you know, the whole world's gonna be destroyed. Why don't you just get rid of that thing? Like, there's no buildup to it. No. Mm-hmm. It's just, they steal it and then we see Arnold and, uh, Arnold and Sonya fall in love.

They don't.

Yeah, there's like a lot of pit stops. It's all like— it's— this is almost like a TV show where it's like, oh, now they're at this weird guy who sleeps on a bed in the middle of nowhere. Uh, now we're at the kid prince's lair. Okay.

Oh God, the kid prince's lair. The kid prince can go away. I hate that. I hated that kid. I hate it. I hated His little handler that's supposed to look Asian, but that dude was terrible.

That dude sucked. I didn't, I didn't mind the, the prince. He like, he's there, but it's at the same time, it's, it, he's the most annoying character in the whole movie. But I mean, it's the thing, it's, it really, it's the thing that really makes this most like a kid movie. Like, I mean, he's, yes, he's a cool little kid flipping that sword around and all. He's pretty badass.

He is not cool. There's nothing cool about that child.

But like, he's fucked.

Yeah, he's got the great line where he's like, I don't know why she's fighting, she doesn't want to win. It's his handler though is annoying. And you know, they were all annoying.

Every character in this movie was annoying.

A lot of the movie though makes, makes you think that it's his movie and not somebody else's.

Exactly. He's taking over. Get him out of here.

He's like a side— she's— her quest and her like Her character, like it's like a side quest.

It's terrible. Every character is annoying. They're all bad. They're all poorly acted, and the lines are it's this is okay. Do we do it?

Do we get to?

I I will also say in in addition to like thinking that this was a Conan related movie, I really thought I remembered Jean Nielsen. being a little more voluptuous, I guess, in this movie than she— like, she's, she's skin and bones.

Yeah, she's not very barbarian-esque.

No, she's not. And, and it really shows when she's having that sword fight with, um, with Arnold. It's just—

Yeah, she's not very beefy. She's very lean.

No.

Um, it's sad when— yeah, like, Arnold's the best actor in the movie and like—

He's terrible.

He's not that good in this.

Yeah.

No, he looks like he might be a little like Drunk or high.

He's got some weird faces where he's like, like in the clip at the beginning where he's just like smiling off into the distance. What is wrong with him?

He's like, I get to go home soon. Nope.

Probably wasn't— he probably didn't know he was on camera because like I said in the trivia, like they were just using like multiple like, uh, camera angles and like cuts and stuff. He probably didn't even know he was rolling on him. He's probably like, oh, this is a Sonya shot, I don't have to worry about my facial expression. This is not that great. I I yeah, it just feels like a cash grab to like be getting that Conan money, which I don't even know how much money Conan made.

I mean, also, could it like could the script have been like another Conan movie that they just kind of adjusted around?

Like there's no way this was Conan. I don't think Arnold wanted to come back for Conan three yet. I believe at that time.

No, that would.

But I mean, even though it's PG thirteen, I mean, this is definitely a movie that was. made for kids to get into, like, the fantasy stuff. Because, you know, you guys found the, the little guy annoying, but that, you know, he was terrible. He, he take— he's on— he's got a lot of screen time there. I— and also the fact that, like, you know, all the fight scenes are really kind of dumbed down and all. They're really— they're long and all, but they're just very basic. It seems like it's like a, hey, here's an intro to fantasy movies, uh, for youngsters, and we're gonna Give you everything you need in a nice little hour and a half package.

That did not give me everything.

No, I didn't get everything. I had 2 major annoyances with this movie.

Only 2?

Well, major, right? So Red Sonja, we, we get to see the beginning where her family is killed and she's assaulted, right? And that's her motivation to become the greatest sword fighter ever.

I feel like her motivation is just that, that lady going like, here you go, have magical powers.

And like, yeah, she's, she's not going to become the— like, she's not on a quest to become the greatest sword fighter. She becomes like the greatest, like, female warrior ever just because she gets that sword handed to her and that angel, right?

So to give her character depth and motivation, her family is killed minus her sister and she's assaulted, right? Yeah. And then the whole movie is like, no, you just don't like men. If you liked men, you'd be better, right? You, you'd be— smile more.

Like, the character arc is bad.

Yeah. And then, and then there's the whole like, oh, you'd love me if you just tried, right?

You know? Yes, it's awkward.

It's— then, then at the end, it's like, oh, you do love me, you know? Like, it's this whole like, you can get to like men, you don't have to be so hateful of men sort of thing. And not all men are— it's a not all—

It's not all men. It's exactly what this movie She is.

Yeah, she— but she needed to have a man that could, you know, potentially kill her.

Yeah, there's that. And then, oh yeah, because she's, she's, she's addicted to trauma. And then like the, the power of motherhood, rearing that little prince and, you know, becoming like a mother figure to him, that softened her and made her more, you know, those sorts of things. Like that whole thing.

It's bad.

It was, was terrible, right? Like, that's the point of the movie. And then, right, so she becomes this great sword fighter through off-screen training. Fine. She goes toe-to-toe with not Conan. Fine. And then she goes toe-to-toe with Queen. Yeah, like Queen is, is matching her Sword strike for sword strike.

Her arch nemesis too.

Yeah. And just so the listener knows, we're not talking about Freddie Mercury. We're talking about—

Not Freddie Mercury or any of the members of Queen. We're talking about the queen whose face she scarred at the beginning, and then she ordered the destruction of her family and the assaulting of her.

But then she wants her back too.

She wants her back, right? Because there's this weird sapphic Quality to it, whatever works and whatever. But she is apparently the one B sword fighter in the world. Yeah, because if Fredsonia was really this great sword fighter, she just chopped her head off lickety-split.

Yeah, there's a lot of moments where I'm like, she's supposed to be the best, but she's losing. Like she drops her sword several. She gets disarmed several times. I'm like, you're supposed to be. better than everyone. Yeah, I don't know. I felt like it's a strange— I do not like the character arc in this film. I feel like it's like not, uh, what is it, like a very like a feminist, you know?

Yeah, it's definitely not that. It's, it's very shallow.

It should be more in-depth, I feel like, which maybe I'm asking too much from this 1985 weird movie, but it's not good. It is a very much— I never thought of it that way, but I'm— yeah.

Not all men.

And they literally say that several times.

They do. Yeah. Which, yeah, that's kind of bad. That's pretty bad.

And then the MacGuffin is kept in a chamber with a bunch of candles.

That was the best looking set.

That I was like, my thought was because it's 1985, if this was done now, that'd be all CGI candles, but somebody had to actually light those candles and place them and stuff. Yes. I was like, that's really cool.

Probably replace them after a while because they melted down too much.

There were 2 to the right that were very melted down. I was like, oh, those were like some OG candles. But then the explanation— the MacGuffin gains more power when it's by light.

Why? How?

Put it on the sun, goddamn it!

Why are you putting it outside? Yeah, the candles are— just open up a sunroof.

Yeah, candles make no sense. They're so—

Doesn't she say something like, there's no window in here?

Yeah, just, just put it outside.

It's just to make a cool room that looks kind of interesting. I feel like that's the only reason to do it. Yeah, because you could literally just go outside and put it out there and be like, there you go, you're gonna get all the power you need.

Yeah, exactly. It didn't make any sense.

And what's it supposed to do? Destroy the planet? Create a new world or something?

It can create worlds.

Or destroy them.

Mostly destroy, it seems like.

It seems like it just cracked the planet in half when the lava started Cracked the planet in half.

And then once when Arnold threw it, or when it got knocked into the— when Red Sonja threw it into the crack, into the lava, I wanted it to scream as well. The orb?

Yes.

Why? Why? What was she— what did the wizard lady want with the orb exactly? I don't know. Destroy the world? To create a new world? I don't know.

She wanted to touch the orb, I guess.

Yeah, she was just happy to have it.

It was funny too when she got killed. So she got stabbed, she got that sword right through the chest, and then she got pushed off the sword and kicked into the pit, and then she still screamed when she fell down the pit. Like, that heart's not beating, it's dead. There's no screaming unless that's— that scream was the whistle of the wind going through the sword wound through her lungs.

Oh, that's kind of cool. Yeah, that's what my lungs sound like if I had a hole. I know this movie's just not well put together in almost any way.

It's, it's poorly written, poorly executed. Uh, it felt like— I know it was made in 1985, or it came out in 1985, probably made 1984, whatever.

1985, that's right.

It had the production quality and appearance Of a movie made in the early '70s.

Yeah, it felt like a '70s thing. Yeah, it's probably because it's low budget, you know. It feels like they didn't have the money to really do anything with it either.

But I mean, like, even the visual quality of it, like, they had to use old film stock, I guess, or something. It just looked bad.

Yeah.

You know what did look awesome was that giant, uh, bridge thing. And I would like to know more about whatever that massive animal—

Oh, that was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Some of the— there's some cool, like, imagery, like the, the place she trains at has that giant statue of that guy.

Yeah, there has to be like a real location. There's no way they built that.

That was cool. Yeah, except for the fact that every time you want to go into the temple, you have to like walk in between that guy's legs.

Yeah, he has to literally beat his poop.

Yeah, don't look up.

Yeah. Oh God, I guarantee there's a big granite anus.

Something's coming out of there.

There's a light bulb screwed into it.

In the hallway. That's it. I hate having to change that light bulb.

It's the worst. Nope. I hate having to pull the chain to turn it on.

You never know what's gonna happen.

Nope. Uh, so that was cool. Those— the, the, like, the beast skeletons were cool wherever her sister was dying. Like, yeah, it— that was neat. Um, I feel like there were parts of other movies. Like he said, they had leftover stuff and they just used it.

Yeah, they're just a lot of the a lot of the stuff looked like it was just leftovers from the the Conan movies. Mm-hmm. Did we do it, boys?

Yeah. I tried.

I tried to do it prematurely, but Terry's like, "What?" Terry wanted to go.

Terry wanted to go to the ninth dimension on this one.

Yeah, I was watching the clock.

Or so was I.

I got so much more to say, but yeah, I guess I'm done.

My one last thing, that room with the candles had to be hot.

Oh, I bet it was. Yeah.

I bet you it was really hot in there from the candles. All right, we did it. We got through Red Sonja from 1985, and I think we kind of pretty much said what we thought. But what'd you guys think?

Uh, this is not a very good movie. No, all around there's Like maybe more.

But it's not the worst movie we've seen this year.

It's close.

It's close, but it's not the worst. What do you— oh, we'll have to talk about this. Yeah, what is the worst?

Jiu-jitsu.

No, this is worse than that.

Jiu-jitsu and Cat in the Hat and Red Sonja are all in the same—

And the Hat's eons above this.

Eons. Production quality. There's a lot of, there's a lot of bad stuff.

Yeah, we've watched a lot of bad this year so far, and those 3 are barrel scrapers right there. I can tell you that much.

Oh, did you just— Mount Rushmore of your 2?

Much more. It's better. Much more.

Got Red Sonja's face up there. We got apparently Cat in the Hat. I'm chiseling that thing out, but then the cage is facing Just be on. What do you think, Terry? Um, this movie is not good. I think it's one of the worst movies we've watched. Total. I agree. Total for the whole show's life. Yeah, it's really bad. Like, I—

20 months, 20 months. This is one of the worst movies we've watched.

It's, it's not good. Like, the more you think about, the more you don't like it. Like, when Derek started talking about the whole man thing. I'm like, yeah, that's even worse because like I, I already kind of had that feeling in my brain, but you really put it into words. And I'm like, that's a good reason why I was not clicking with this at all. It's like, it's just an uncomfortable, weird, like, men are okay, right?

Look at us. Yeah, you didn't like it, Terry, because they were telling you men were bad. I mean—

Oh yeah, yeah. Come on, Sonia, just listen to Arnold. It's fine.

Why don't I like this movie?

Yeah, we're the only men's rights podcast that dares to listen to or dares to watch movies. Uh, no, it was— yeah, God, it was just fucking bad. It was just really bad. And it might be better than— might be worse than Jiu-Jitsu. I don't know. Jiu-Jitsu was really, really bad though too. Really bad.

Uh, yeah, I mean, they're both bad.

It was tough. Very, very tough. Well, we know what we thought about Red Sonja. Sonya, not Sonya, that's my wife's name. Sonya. What did the internet have to say? This will be interesting. Are there any 10s?

Yeah, I bet there is.

There's always a 10.

Well, on April 15th, Tax Day of 2024.

Wow, what a way to celebrate.

Bernie4444 had this to say. Brigitte and Arnold cut up. You need to prepare yourself for this movie. Move the furniture out of the way and send the cats out of the room, or they may be victims of swordplay. Yep, you guessed it. Arnie, Princey's Hercules in New York, 1970, is back.

That's what you know him from?

And he is talking. Toss in Brigitte Nielsen, And a sprinkle of the evil Sandahl Bergman, and you have an afternoon of fun and revenge. Seems there is the talisman, parentheses, some glowy plastic thing, parentheses, that only women can touch. If it gets too much light, it will destroy the world. It is captured by a dark queen with great ambition, Red Sonja, Bridget Nielsen, who hates men. Must team up with Calidor on Schwarzenegger. It doesn't say a man to make sure the talisman is properly disposed of before it destroys the world. They have many trials and tribulations along the way. Will they succeed? Two found that helpful. One not so much. Ten out of ten. It ends with a question: Will they do what they set out to do?

The fact is like. The— it's this magical talisman. It's basically just a weird glowing orb thing, question mark. It's like you don't even know what that thing is.

Yeah, he's, he's on the like so bad it's good sort of bandwagon.

No, I hate that.

I don't know.

Well, not to be outdone, on January 30th, 2007, Sorte Orm had this to say: Hard to watch.

Yep. Agreed.

I watched this movie, or part of it, in hope that it would be fun to laugh at how bad it was, but it soon became clear that this was just plain silly. For one, you have the worst acting ever. The lead actress, Bridget Nielsen, is terrible, uninspired, and hardly even attractive.

Yeah. Wow. That's not fair.

That's not fair.

That's too much. She went too far.

She was a terrible actor in this movie and uninspired, maybe, but she wasn't hard to look at.

Give her a chance. She's better in Cobra, I bet.

Yeah, I bet she couldn't act like a good-looking woman.

Jeez, Keith.

And she certainly do not look like the female warrior who could easily kick some veteran warrior king's butt. But she does! And what's with the feminist attitude? It's plain hypocrisy. For one, her family was killed by a woman, and she joined some warrior school or something so she could learn how to fight men. She then joins up with a fat servant and his child king whose city was destroyed by Gedren.

Oh.

AKA the woman. Those 2 characters are just plain stupid and destroys a little of atmosphere that the movie managed to create. After this, I could not take any more of Nielsen's painful acting and the stupid clichés and lack of some real action. Schwarzenegger as Kalidor was the only part of this movie which actually made it remotely watchable. Probably because he's a man. I like the Conan movie, but this is pure crap.

Okay.

I can agree with sentiments. 4 found that helpful. 6, not so much. 1 out of 10.

Some parts I get, other parts I'm like, okay, where you're going a little too in a different direction with this.

A woman killed her family.

Oh yeah, no, that's so stupid.

It is dumb. All right, well, we did it. We got through the month of From Page to Screen, including Red Sonja. And you know what that means, boys. Keith, bust out that spreadsheet.

I got it all set ready.

Wow, because we gotta rank these mofos. Keith, remind us what we watched.

All right, we watched, uh, in the Page to Screen month here. Uh, we watched The Road.

Yes.

Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

Correct.

Conan the Barbarian. Yes. And Red Sonja.

Red Sonja. I got my ranking.

Well, hit me with it.

Road, Ridgemont, Conan, Sonja.

I'm gonna echo those same choices.

I'm going from worst to best.

Okay.

Red Sonja. Yes, it's the worst by a long margin.

Bad, bad movie.

It's like a pit where you throw all the priestess women down.

Yes. Yeah, we have a giant pit that has Red Sonja, Jiu-Jitsu, uh, Cat in the Hat.

No, look at the hats come out of there.

Okay, no.

Yeah, I could get a little— McQuaid's in there.

And then Lone Wolf McQuaid for sure.

Oh God.

Uh, but after that, everything else is pretty much very close for me. Um, I'm gonna go Conan the Barbarian as number 3, much higher tier than Red Sonja. And then I think I'm gonna go The Road. And then surprisingly, I liked, uh, Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

I thought Fast Times at Ridgemont High was great.

I really liked it. Best. Yeah, that was my favorite of the— and that's not usually a movie I would go and see, so So there you go.

You're going Fast Times at Roadhouse, Conan and Sonya.

Yep. Yep.

All right. There you go.

Oh man. M7 is in the books, but not flying by. Flying by. Won't be adapted into a movie. Maybe it will. Who knows? And if it is, we'll watch it.

M7?

Yeah. M7's in the books.

Yeah. No, that's true. It will be adapted to screen. Yeah.

We'll go from page to screen.

One, one podcast transcription to screen.

Well, one will. We just have to pay, wait, and find out. That means M8, mate, is a time for—

What's the M stand for?

Month.

Oh, thank you.

It's DTF, down to fumble. Y2, year 2. M8, the M stands for month. And that's Keith's month.

Yeah. Yeah.

So Keith, Let us know what we're in for and what we're watching next week.

All right, this is gonna be an interesting one. I'm adding little layers to this, uh, thing here. I'm not gonna go just my plain boring genre picks.

Oh, he's got— is this the one you've been hiding?

No, no, I— no, I'm, I'm probably not gonna do that. I'm never gonna do that one anyway. But I, I did, I did, I recently came up with this one, um, because True Romance is on one of the streamers and it keeps popping up to remind me to watch it.

Uh-huh.

Uh, it's one of my favorite films of all time. I haven't watched it in a long time, but in that movie, uh, Clarence takes, uh, Alabama and they go see a movie. They go see 3 movies actually, uh, but we're only gonna watch one of them. Sonny Chiba, and, uh, it's The Street Fighter, uh, starring Sonny Chiba from 1974. This month we are watching movies in movies. So you gotta find a movie that is inside of another movie at some point.

Okay. Whoa.

Though they're like, they're in the theater, they're watching it. You see some clips on the screen while they're watching, uh, the Street Fighter.

It has to have clips in it too?

It can't just be referenced. Yeah, it should. Yeah, you should be able to see the movie someplace along the line.

Movies inside of movies. And what is it we're watching?

We're gonna watch, uh, an X-rated movie.

Whoa.

It's, uh, The Street Fighter starring Sonny Chiba from 1974.

We're on to The Street Fighter starring Sonny Chiba that was featured in the movie— well, featured in, but in the movie True Romance.

Yeah.

All right, all right. Well, I guess then that means we have nothing to do But to end this the way we end everything. Indeed.

How about you go to the movies with me tonight?

What are we gonna see?

A Sonny Chiba triple feature: Street Fighter, Return of the Street Fighter, and Sister Street Fighter.

Who's Sonny Chiba? Who is Sonny Chiba?

He is He's bar none the finest actor working in martial arts movies today. You want to take me to a kung fu movie? 3 kung fu movies.

I don't think so. Thanks for listening to Fumbling Through Film. New episodes drop every Thursday. Got feedback or questions? Email us at [email protected]. You can see our films, The Fumble Before You Tumble, Into the Grave, and other musings on Letterboxd at Fumble Through Film. The through is T-H-R-U. You can also follow Keith on Instagram @kg3030lives and on Letterboxd @kg3030. Terry is on Letterboxd at Terry2099. Derek is on Letterboxd at Derek, the number 9, and then the word 9. All original music is done by the Dr. Dre of Kansas, Terry, so hit him Love for them bangers. Our new podcast logo is done by the delightful and talented Sanjay Vicky Nayak. You can find her on Instagram @einkstein. That's Einstein with a K in there. We'll see you next week as we keep on fumbling.